Pontiac Solstice Forum - View Single Post - Nitrous, DI, a Turbo, and you. (advanced)

Very little experience here... No experience if you ask me about my own cars. ...but you're not getting much activity, so I'll throw my thoughts out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinner

Well I have experience with nitrous, but none with a Direct Injection car or a turbocharged car. It seems in theory that a wet kit wont cause problems with the direct injection, due to the fact that even though the mixture isnt as dispersed as the factory injected fuel, the factory fuel will still atomize theoretically at the same rate and serve as a catalyst for the less dispersed fuel dispensed by a fuel jet. Please correct me if that's not the correct train of thought.

Can't argue with the logic. The theory seems sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinner

Factory FPR--- the DI runs at 3xxx psi yep, but is there an external fuel pressure regulator before the DI pump and injectors to work a fuel solenoid off of or will I need a standalone pump to fuel the solenoid.

Don't have shop manual. Can't see anything in any of the stuff available on the web. I think you're gonna need a stand alone pump.

No input for the next two questions/comments you had/made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinner

Injection point... After the MAF, probably in one of the hardpipes. But hot side to cool the I/C as well, or cold side close to the intake manifold. I'm guessing you could go either way, but what difference would it make on either side (and why). I'm guessing the leftover fuel residue in the intercooler wouldnt be a good thing, but would it be enough to cause issue?

There's going to be delay if you go in the hot side. People don't understand that the pressure buildup through the IC is almost instantaneous.

Think of ping pong balls totally filling a tube. Now put another ping pong ball in one end and a ping pong ball pops immediately out the other. It's just like that.

Granted, there are some compression effects/delays with the turbo IC system, but they are measured in fractions of a second. So the effects of the turbine are expressed at the engine's intake ports well before the actual air moving through the turbine reaches the ports. The "turbo lag" we feel is all about the time it takes to spin up the turbine, not the time it takes for the air to go through the IC system. Again, the effects are almost instantaneous.

I think you'll be VERY unhappy with the delay if you inject the shot in the hot side pipe. You want that shot to be as close to the intake ports as possible.

And I wouldn't dream of doing it before the turbo. That turbo could be an ignition source. One day those bearings will be wearing out and get red hot.... You hit the button and.... Ka-BOOM!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinner

Option 2: A small 25-35 shot dry kit before the MAF. Not ideal, but if there's no viable fuel source, it might have to be a dry shot. Would this cause any issue with the turbo? Subzero air hitting the turbine blades cause any problems at WOT? Again, I dont have experience with nitrous in turbo cars. Experts post up, forum lawyers stay out.

Never before the MAF. You'll screw up everything. The MAF senses air density by the change in temperature/resistance in a filament. You spray NOX before the MAF and the MAF won't know what hit it.

Never before the turbo for similar reasons as mentioned above. The unwanted delay and NOX will allow stuff to burn... really easy!

You don't want to send it through the turbine. If, for any reason, it provides and ignition source, you could have an engine fire really quick.

Also, you don't want the delay associated with the stuff having to travel through the whole "gerbil tube" before you get your pleasure. You want immediate gratification. That means as close to the intake valves as you can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinner

One more minor concern is the PCM. Not so much that it will notice the nitrous, which it shouldnt, but rather its torque sensing features. What will happen if it retards the engine's power due to the nitrous' increased output and how is that retard accomplished. Obviously you dont want fuel cut or spark cut spraying the juice, but everything points toward the retard being a gradual effect.

I'd guess an ECM tune is a must. You could try it first and see what happens, but the Nanny in the box is not gonna like you very much at all.

__________________
Disclaimers:
1) This in no way constitutes an admission of modification of any vehicle in my posession. This and other posts submitted on this forum simply represent an attempt to gain acceptance from a peer group and are to be considered fictitious.
2) This is not professional advice. This is casual conversation.

Last edited by Maika'i GXP : 08-30-2007 at 09:43 PM.

	Maika'i GXP Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Long Island, NY... a sister island to the Hawaiian chain. ;-)	Very little experience here... No experience if you ask me about my own cars. ...but you're not getting much activity, so I'll throw my thoughts out there. Quote: Originally Posted by Spinner Well I have experience with nitrous, but none with a Direct Injection car or a turbocharged car. It seems in theory that a wet kit wont cause problems with the direct injection, due to the fact that even though the mixture isnt as dispersed as the factory injected fuel, the factory fuel will still atomize theoretically at the same rate and serve as a catalyst for the less dispersed fuel dispensed by a fuel jet. Please correct me if that's not the correct train of thought. Can't argue with the logic. The theory seems sound. Quote: Originally Posted by Spinner Factory FPR--- the DI runs at 3xxx psi yep, but is there an external fuel pressure regulator before the DI pump and injectors to work a fuel solenoid off of or will I need a standalone pump to fuel the solenoid. Don't have shop manual. Can't see anything in any of the stuff available on the web. I think you're gonna need a stand alone pump. No input for the next two questions/comments you had/made. Quote: Originally Posted by Spinner Injection point... After the MAF, probably in one of the hardpipes. But hot side to cool the I/C as well, or cold side close to the intake manifold. I'm guessing you could go either way, but what difference would it make on either side (and why). I'm guessing the leftover fuel residue in the intercooler wouldnt be a good thing, but would it be enough to cause issue? There's going to be delay if you go in the hot side. People don't understand that the pressure buildup through the IC is almost instantaneous. Think of ping pong balls totally filling a tube. Now put another ping pong ball in one end and a ping pong ball pops immediately out the other. It's just like that. Granted, there are some compression effects/delays with the turbo IC system, but they are measured in fractions of a second. So the effects of the turbine are expressed at the engine's intake ports well before the actual air moving through the turbine reaches the ports. The "turbo lag" we feel is all about the time it takes to spin up the turbine, not the time it takes for the air to go through the IC system. Again, the effects are almost instantaneous. I think you'll be VERY unhappy with the delay if you inject the shot in the hot side pipe. You want that shot to be as close to the intake ports as possible. And I wouldn't dream of doing it before the turbo. That turbo could be an ignition source. One day those bearings will be wearing out and get red hot.... You hit the button and.... Ka-BOOM! Quote: Originally Posted by Spinner Option 2: A small 25-35 shot dry kit before the MAF. Not ideal, but if there's no viable fuel source, it might have to be a dry shot. Would this cause any issue with the turbo? Subzero air hitting the turbine blades cause any problems at WOT? Again, I dont have experience with nitrous in turbo cars. Experts post up, forum lawyers stay out. Never before the MAF. You'll screw up everything. The MAF senses air density by the change in temperature/resistance in a filament. You spray NOX before the MAF and the MAF won't know what hit it. Never before the turbo for similar reasons as mentioned above. The unwanted delay and NOX will allow stuff to burn... really easy! You don't want to send it through the turbine. If, for any reason, it provides and ignition source, you could have an engine fire really quick. Also, you don't want the delay associated with the stuff having to travel through the whole "gerbil tube" before you get your pleasure. You want immediate gratification. That means as close to the intake valves as you can get. Quote: Originally Posted by Spinner One more minor concern is the PCM. Not so much that it will notice the nitrous, which it shouldnt, but rather its torque sensing features. What will happen if it retards the engine's power due to the nitrous' increased output and how is that retard accomplished. Obviously you dont want fuel cut or spark cut spraying the juice, but everything points toward the retard being a gradual effect. I'd guess an ECM tune is a must. You could try it first and see what happens, but the Nanny in the box is not gonna like you very much at all. __________________ Disclaimers: 1) This in no way constitutes an admission of modification of any vehicle in my posession. This and other posts submitted on this forum simply represent an attempt to gain acceptance from a peer group and are to be considered fictitious. 2) This is not professional advice. This is casual conversation. Last edited by Maika'i GXP : 08-30-2007 at 09:43 PM.