Glad that you and jackknife have both recognized the merits of an all-encompassing organization. I would, however, posit that consideration of a national/international club had been discussed many times over since these cars first came out. NASSOA did not magically appear one day at the push of a button, although it may have seemed that way at the time.
Of course NASSOA it is not the only national club. I have chosen to belong to two.
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Originally Posted by achieftain
I'll let the powers that be answer the particulars you raise as most of those are of more concern to you, a voting member than to me, a non-voting member. But consider how far NASSOA could have gone if they wanted to. NASSOA could claim 100% ownership of NASSM, and then insist that each and every volunteer involved in putting on the production be a dues-paying member. As far as I can tell that is certainly not the case. NASSOA appears poised to have final say, through a vote of its eligible members, of which you are one, over locations of NASSM, but is not set up to pre-select those locations or even designate a location and then hope volunteers step forward. NASSOA could even demand tribute from regional and local clubs for the privilege of being associated with a national club simply in order to participate in nationals - that as well appears to not be the case. Consider also that because nationals is a grassroots development out of the forum that it also involves people who are members of no club in particular.
I'll agree that NASSOA could be much more demanding and control regarding NASSM.
Like you, I'll wait for NASSOA to answer the particulars, though I'm afraid the answer already came from MomsSol:
Quote:
The offer still stands ..... if you or anyone are unhappy with the manner in which the organization is trying to move forward, provide for the Kappa community, interact with GM/Pontiac/Saturn ..... a more organized format similar to those of other National Car Clubs .......... we will happily refund your membership dues.
I really hope that doesn't NASSOA want input only from those who already agree with the leadership.
What exactly is the loose plan at this point for voting on the location of the 2010 event?
NASSOA is not a very large organization at this point...a few hundred members, I suppose. Is the plan that ONLY NASSOA MEMBERS can vote on the proposed 2010 NASSM sites? In other words...a few hundred will be determining what is good for a community of thousands?
That doesn't seem like a good idea to me...if that indeed is the plan. While I have no gripe with eventually moving toward that reality...I'm not sure that would be the best choice at present.
NASSOA could claim 100% ownership of NASSM, and then insist that each and every volunteer involved in putting on the production be a dues-paying member. As far as I can tell that is certainly not the case.
Nor could it be. NASSOA isn't large enough, nor does it have the clout in the Kappa community at present, to demand such a thing and still have the ability to run a highly successful national event.
To me, the 2010 event should be viewed as a primary vehicle for increasing NASSOA membership and showing the Kappa community how NASSOA intends to oversee this process going forward. To that end, NASSOA needs to document the process and provide clarification when necessary so that everyone is on the same page and gains confidence and trust in NASSOA. That is where I'm not seeing the rubber meet the road at this point.
Yeah, it is a pain in the ass...but it needs to happen. It doesn't have to be the Magna Carta at this point...just something basic that outlines some information such as a deadline for groups turning in bid proposals, a potential voting period, who will be voting, how they are voting, etc. That stuff all probably needs to happen sometime during 2008...well, we are almost halfway through 2008, and I've seen zippo regarding any of it other than "it's coming".
I don't like the notion that "24 months is a LONG TIME until the 2010 event...we did Nashville in 11 months". With all due respect, a 2010 meet has the potential to be twice as large as Nashville (or larger) and will provide some unique challenges and concerns that Nashville or KC did not have to worry about...especially in regard to vendors and the growth of Kappa ownership outside of experienced car enthusiasts. The people planning the 2010 event also might not be as experienced as those running KC or Nashville...and might require a longer timeframe to put together an event.
Just because some people threw together a successful event in KC or Nashville during a relatively short timeframe doesn't mean that is the way it should always be done. Kudos to those who did organize a great event in a short timeframe! However, more planning time is better...for both the organizers and the attendees.
What exactly is the loose plan at this point for voting on the location of the 2010 event?
NASSOA is not a very large organization at this point...a few hundred members, I suppose. Is the plan that ONLY NASSOA MEMBERS can vote on the proposed 2010 NASSM sites? In other words...a few hundred will be determining what is good for a community of thousands?
That doesn't seem like a good idea to me...if that indeed is the plan. While I have no gripe with eventually moving toward that reality...I'm not sure that would be the best choice at present.
NASSOA is not a very large organization at this point...a few hundred members, I suppose. Is the plan that ONLY NASSOA MEMBERS can vote on the proposed 2010 NASSM sites? In other words...a few hundred will be determining what is good for a community of thousands?
the only point I will make as a long time member of this forum...long before GMR and NASSOA were here....is that there are aprox 60 thousand plus kappa owners...assuming 3 MY at 20K per year...for the sake of conversation lets work those numbers....of 60K I would quess less than 4 percent probably have ever looked at this forum or know or even care that it exists.......(2400)..supermods could probably give us better numbers...the member map only shows 775 plus pens it in... and probably less than 100 are active members on this board meaning they log in at least once a week, again an estimate on my part......both GMR and NASSOA draw their memberships primarily from this forum.....
the highest attended event so far was the Nashville Meet and it only attracted about approx 20% of the owners here....comparing the number of cars to the number of members who have posted on the map.....
with these considerations....noone, not this forum, GMR or NASSOA currently represents a community of thousands...all three promote something related to the Kappa community
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pontiac builds excitement... Saturn has rethought it's image...
The time has come for the enthusiasts... NASSOA(TM)
Founding Member-Vendor and Marketing Coordinator ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pontiac builds excitement... Saturn has rethought it's image...
The time has come for the enthusiasts... NASSOA
Founding Member - Recording Secretary - Northeast ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Step up to the plate guys and gals. If you feel you can host a better nationals, please do so. Start your own forum, get your own members and do so. Lets see how any members show up. I personally will not attend any event gmroadster is involved in.
Step up to the plate guys and gals. If you feel you can host a better nationals, please do so. Start your own forum, get your own members and do so. Lets see how any members show up. I personally will not attend any event gmroadster is involved in.
NASSOA is the future!
Are you implying that Solstice Forum and NASSOA are related (by other than membership overlap)?
If GMR is a sponsor for 2009 (as they were for 2008) you won't attend? I found GMR sponsorship in Las Vegas to be very useful. They gave out a ton of bottled water, put together and led runs, and coordinated the car show judging. I don't know why anyone would find that participation objectionable.
Glad that you and jackknife have both recognized the merits of an all-encompassing organization. I would, however, posit that consideration of a national/international club had been discussed many times over since these cars first came out. NASSOA did not magically appear one day at the push of a button, although it may have seemed that way at the time.
I'll let the powers that be answer the particulars you raise as most of those are of more concern to you, a voting member than to me, a non-voting member. But consider how far NASSOA could have gone if they wanted to. NASSOA could claim 100% ownership of NASSM, and then insist that each and every volunteer involved in putting on the production be a dues-paying member. As far as I can tell that is certainly not the case. NASSOA appears poised to have final say, through a vote of its eligible members, of which you are one, over locations of NASSM, but is not set up to pre-select those locations or even designate a location and then hope volunteers step forward. NASSOA could even demand tribute from regional and local clubs for the privilege of being associated with a national club simply in order to participate in nationals - that as well appears to not be the case. Consider also that because nationals is a grassroots development out of the forum that it also involves people who are members of no club in particular.
A heavy hand from the jump start would certainly promote anarchy. And, John I am fully aware of the discussions since I've been on the BB regularly since March '05.
The perception issue stems from the fact that the principals hatched the plan to counter the rise of GMR. There were supporters of the endeavor due to a paranoid fear and intense competition that GMRoadster would somehow triumph. This was my issue. I just didn't see an inclusion of the entire forum. meat, I rest my case because you just made it for me.
NASSOA was organized primarily by the folks who started the KC and Nashville meets, and as such they have some experience setting up nationals. They are now soliciting local clubs and people who WANT to host a nationals event to put together a plan and present it to them. They will then review the plans, present them to their membership, and have their membership vote on which national event, that an outside organization has proposed to put on, will receive NASSOA assistance.
That doesn’t mean NASSOA is dictating where “the” national meet will be. They are soliciting people/clubs/groups who want to hold a national meet. People who may or may not have any association with NASSOA. When they have all the responses in, they will review them for feasibility, preparedness, seriousness, etc, and I am assuming present them to their membership for vote. The winning person/group/club will receive NASSOA’s support in trying to come through in putting a national event on.
I don’t see the problem with that.
Anybody can still propose, and host a national. Whether or not they have NASSOA’s blessing (or any other club or organization’s blessing). NASSOA appears to be implementing a procedure for selecting a national event already in the planning stage for them to focus on with assistance.
Again, thats just my opinion, I am in no way associated with NASSOA nor do I speak for them.
I don't disagree that NASSOA is the future...it has to be in order for the Kappa community at large to really grow.
My point is that I would like to see some results from the time NASSOA is utilizing right now pertaining to the event that ultimately makes or breaks them for many who are interested observers...the 2010 NASSM.
In other words...this is more or less their Super Bowl that they have gone to great lengths to protect and claim rights to in at least a few ways. However, in terms of seeing some kind of proposal in terms of how the event will be spread out fairly to the regions of North America going forward...we have nothing tangible in writing. In terms of setting out the guidelines and timeframe for groups to propose bids for hosting the event...we have nothing tangible in writing. In terms of setting out the guidelines and timeframe for who will decide which proposals should be considered and who will vote on them...we have nothing tangible in writing.
That's an awful lot to not have SECURELY in place at this point. This is especially true when many of the items I bring up pertain to activities that probably should be completed before year end in order to adequately prepare for a 2010 NASSM event and when they are directly related to the first line of NASSOA's own mission statement: assisting in the selection and coordination of the planning of the Annual NASSM.
I understand NASSOA is a work in progress and has plenty on its plate. I will admit that there is still a good amount of time left in the year, so I'm not trying to claim that NASSOA has dropped the ball and we should give up hope. I'm sure they are working on it...and probably have taken notice of the concerns from jackasses like me who are willing to speak up. It is possible that some of this stuff is already written up in a rough format, but just hasn't been given a final approval to be made public.
I'm just making a serious suggestion pertaining to what I would like to see as someone who is considering why someone should join and support NASSOA. Blindly claiming "it is the future" is hardly a reason anyone should offer their support to an organization.
A heavy hand from the jump start would certainly promote anarchy.
Perhaps, but a good level of leadership is also necessary.
Let's be honest here...many Kappa owners don't have the first clue about organizing a local event, let alone a national one. If those who DO have experience don't step up and take the lead in helping others gain experience, then it will always be the ones with experience who are forced to carry the load.
In some ways, it is a careful balance...but NASSOA needs to be more hands on IMO in terms of the process of selecting a site. They don't need to promote a specific site or take charge in the planning process of the event to do so. They just need to clearly explain how the process is going to work...or at least come to us with what they think will work best and get our input before making a final decision.
My point is you don't need to start a different forum in order to host a nationals entirely separate from any of the established national clubs. Or to be required to include either or both (or more if they crop up) in planning or execution. I would agree that the best scenario includes a peaceful passing of the baton from year to year from one organizer to the next.
There have been competing national clubs of cars of much lower production and survival than the Kappas, each hosting their own meets. It is even conceivable for GMR to host their own meet, NASSOA their own meet, and this forum a grassroots national meet.
And there are certainly no restrictions I know of from either club prohibiting membership in the other. In fact several people boast dual membership. Does GMR offer the regional and local clubs something that NASSOA does not? Perhaps. Does this forum offer the individual clubs their own space on the web with the ability to discuss, collect dues, organize runs, post newsletters? Yes, and all for free. Did we, the moderators and administrators, do this out of fear of any existing or proposed national club? No, we did it just because we could.
I know this post is a little off track from DHH's original thread intent, however consider that much thought was given to the question, should the forum own nationals? And the answer was no, and in hindsight with the sale of the forum probably the correct answer.
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