13.145 1/4 Mile time with an automattic tranny and shiitty Stock Goodyear tires!!!!!

[NavyKnight]

Yes I do. Or my helmet keeps hitting the window!! I really respect the manual shifters doing Auto-X and tight road course lapping, it's already hard enough with braking and hitting the best lines. Is it true to say that your only shifting opportunities when lapping are during straight-aways? I couldn't envision people manually shifting during intense curves and corners.

[MeanGXP-R]

I have an automatic - so what was your best combination of your selections to get your fastest run? i.e. traction control off? starting in L? etc.

Originally Posted by NavyKnight In the video you see with me and Craig Lewis, he told me late last night that it was just a bad run shown in the video, and there maybe some unknown tech troubles in his car that could have not been a good example of a manual vs. auto. However in all our runs, my GXP always did 0.5 secs quicker. No worries, we were not competing anyway, just having fun, and I am never going to rub it in. Now that I am home, I will post more vids, so some knowledgeable people on this forum can analyze a little more scientifically so we can all learn. TopDown, Sunday would be a great experiment. An experiment that I bet lots of people would enjoy analyzing. The test and tune runs from 11AM to 5PM and only costs $30. 1pm would be fine and be enough time. I actually got to the track really late about 1.5 hours before closing. So in 90 mins I was able to do 13 runs while taking three 5 min breaks. There were only about 10 cars at that time. Maybe if we hook up around 2-3pm you don't have to rush your church activities? Hell you are only 15mins away right? So PM me and let's do this, I am having soo much fun. I can also show you what I learned about launching an automatic. HEre are some of my thoughts so far: What is there to know before you race? 1. You must bring a helmet. 2. You pay at the entrance gate, they give you a wrist band and tech sheet. 3. You must take the tech sheet to the side of staging area, not where everyone is lining up to drag. A mean looking man will look over your car and write a number on your windshield with white make up paint that comes off later very messily. Bring windex and a microfibre cloth for afterwards. 4. You can now join the line ups to race. Avoid racing beside those loud professional cars, they usually like to race alone, or if they break an engine part, it may fly and kill you or damage your car. What are the variables for launching? Gear Selection: 1. Use "D" 2. Use "4" 3. Use "I" - I did this most often. 4. Use "L" - never tried, but should: ) Traction Control: 1. Normal mode with ESC ON and Traction Control ON 2. Competition Mode 3. Traction Control Off Only 4. Both Traction Control and ESC Off Revving before the light: 1. Don't rev. 2. Rev to 2000 RPM 3. Rev to 3000 RPM 4. Rev as much as you can just until your brake fails to keep you still. 5. If you are crazy, go into Neutral, Rev as high as your balls are big, then when the light turns green shift your automatic to "D". Flooring it after the Green Light. 1. Gradually floor it so you avoid wheel spinning. 2. Floor it all the way like a criminal till the end. 3. Floor it all the way until you spin wheels, let off just a bit to gain traction, then floor it again until the end. Traction Liquid. 1. Drive around the wet stuff they use on the track. (the one I chose for all my runs) 2. Drive through the wet stuff on the track. 3. Stop on the wet stuff on the track like the badass cars and spin your wheels!!! After each race. 1. You can slow down after the big Timer signs gradually, so you don't use too much of your brakes. 2. Let the person that won go first "out of respect" to pick up the timeslips from the guy waiting at the little booth at the end of the track. 3. Drive back slowly enough not to draw attention to track officials and fast enough not to piss off people behind you. the speed limit is 10mp/h going back, but we usually end up going 30mph. Rinse and repeat !!!:

[NavyKnight]

The best combo was Driving in "I", reving till 3000-3500 before the green light until the car seems it can't keep still. All traction off and ESC off. However I question if "I" or "D" really make a difference, and I am tempted to try "L" this Sunday. I believe what happens in "L" is that if you go fast enough, the car will upshift you to a higher gear anyway to prevent engine damage. That may mean a shift point at over 6000rpm. In terms of flooring, I choose option 2, floor it like a criminal when green. Take a look at the videos of the runs that hit 13.2's. Notice the terrible tire screeching and spinning? That's what bugs me. I think deflating to 19psi is what it needs for now. For later new tires are definately coming.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by NavyKnight However I question if "I" or "D" really make a difference, and I am tempted to try "L" this Sunday. I believe what happens in "L" is that if you go fast enough, the car will upshift you to a higher gear anyway to prevent engine damage. That may mean a shift point at over 6000rpm.

I'm no expert, but I would presume your rev limiter would cut off the gas and you would lose time that way. I've done it a couple of times with my manual transmission, scares the heck out of me when it happens!

I'm sure someone with an automatic can confirm or deny the rev limiter.

.

[JRinKY]

NavyKnight : Yes I do. Or my helmet keeps hitting the window!! I really respect the manual shifters doing Auto-X and tight road course lapping, it's already hard enough with braking and hitting the best lines. Is it true to say that your only shifting opportunities when lapping are during straight-aways? I couldn't envision people manually shifting during intense curves and corners.

In general terms, shifting and braking should only be done in the straights. If cornering at the limit, the additional load placed on the tires by changes in brake force or by changes in engine thrust or braking could be enough to cause a spin or a slide.

The main practical (as opposed to aesthetic) reason that autos are generally shunned by serious road drivers is the fact that they (transmissions) are not aware of anything except throttle position and loading, so they are apt to shift at very inopportune times. They are also reactive devices, and cannot anticipate what is going to happen. All in all not very conducive to performane driving in anything but a straight line.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by JRinKY The main practical (as opposed to aesthetic) reason that autos are generally shunned by serious road drivers is the fact that they (transmissions) are not aware of anything except throttle position and loading, so they are apt to shift at very inopportune times. They are also reactive devices, and cannot anticipate what is going to happen. All in all not very conducive to performane driving in anything but a straight line.

A very important exception to serious road racers not liking automatic transmissions was:
The Chaparral.
Jim Hall of Midland, Texas built and raced auto trans and was very successful at it. And it was very convenient to have an auto trans in the 2E and later models, since they had a movable wing mounted high on the rear deck. The left foot was free to move the wing to a vertical position, providing tremendous assistance in slowing for the curves. As a result, his cars could go faster into the corner approaches and still slow in time.

Ford tried autos in their GT40 Mark IIs, but not as successfully.

If you ever wondered who started using wings and deflectors on racing cars, it started with Jim Hall and his Chaparrals, way back around 1960.

.

[TecSolOnt]

Originally Posted by Northstar24 The 5 speed can handle more than 260 ft lbs of torque - the GMPP tune raises the torque to 340 ft lbs. Generally speaking 5 speeds will handle more torque than OEM auto's before having issues (at least in my experience)

I edited this message after reviewing the docs below a 2nd time, comparing apples and oranges. Engine torque and gearbox torque, the manual and the automatic are equivalent if you look at the gearbox torque portion.



You could view the documents from the Sky forum here for both the auto and manual:

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/at...in_ar5_ma5.pdf

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/at...-ar5-trans.pdf

[GS Stage 1]

GM did order some upgrades to the Aisin for the Kappa applications, that I did not see represented in the PDF file. I know that they Super-Teched 1st and 2nd gears and I think they went with stronger Syncros. Can't remember all the details, but I know they did beef it up a little from the "Hummer application". And the fact that no one has exploded a manual yet, especially with some of the aftermarket tunes, is evidence that it must be holding up pretty good.

This is something I have a little experience with. Believe when I say "explode", that I am not kidding. I blew up the stock Muncie in my Buick 3 times, before I finally got one built that would hold. When you over torque a manual, there is no "kinda of broke it", it tends to come out in pieces. I would think that we would be seeing this by now, if the Aisin wasn't going to hold up.

[topdowneh]

Hey Navy,

Looks like it is going to be a nice day for us at the drag strip tomorrow. I should be there around 1:00 PM. I got the helmet and am all set to go. If I beat 14.0 seconds, I will be happy.

DIC not showing any boost lately and CEL stayed on. Took it into Leggat Motors on Wednesday. Wouldn't you know it, I got within 300 yards of the dealership and the boost pressure indicator started working again and lots of power, but the CEL stayed on. They got two codes P101 and P106, both having to do with MAP sensors not functioning properly. They cleared the CEL and codes and it seems to be OK for now. Hope it will be OK for tomorrow.

See you at the track,

Rick

[I1ULUZ]

Originally Posted by Gizmo I'm no expert, but I would presume your rev limiter would cut off the gas and you would lose time that way. I've done it a couple of times with my manual transmission, scares the heck out of me when it happens! I'm sure someone with an automatic can confirm or deny the rev limiter. .

It will just up shift vice hitting the fuel cut rev limiter.

[carcrazy]

Nice work NavyKnight. Did you preload the Auto and if so , how many RPMs. I'm skeptical about preloading. Appreciate you feedback.

[bun1t]

Originally Posted by NavyKnight But with 3 mods all together costing under $1500 (a good HP Tuners Tune, SOLO's high flow cat and street race muffler) I just wanted to give automatic tranny drivers some "hope", as we always get made fun of, for not choosing manual. an manuals?)

Yawn... Not impressed. I ran a 13.1 in my manual with only $400 in mods. 12.9's have already been done with nothing other than a tune again in a manual.

My next trip to the track should be easy 12's with only $406 spent in mods.

[NavyKnight]

Hi Bun1t,

I would love to see your slip, but you probably have a good excuse for not keeping them around. : ) If you ran 13.1 you should be happy as hell. What mods did you get for $400, Transformers towels, plastic suction hooks and purple shirts?

[IMG][/IMG]


I hope I break the 12's today as I removed the passenger seat and have a little more confidence in the launching technique.

[NavyKnight]

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL. My attempt today at breaking into the 12's was a huge FAIL. My fastest time was 13.339 after 9 runs even with my passenger seat missing. What a difference the weather makes in your 1/4 Mile times. I believe it reached 18 degrees C today and my last time at the track was around 6-10 degrees C. That's my last time doing the 1/4 Mile when the temps are above 10 degrees C.

Top Down, did you make it to the track? I had to leave around 1:30pm. There was major engine probs for some dragsters at around 1pm and the line ups were starting to get 12 cars deep, so I just had to leave. At 11am opening, the lines were only 2 cars deep so that's probably the best time. If you went, what were your time slips like? I was getting 13.3's to 13.5's with the crappy weather. If I was a camper, I would have been rejoicing.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by Gizmo I'm no expert, but I would presume your rev limiter would cut off the gas and you would lose time that way. I've done it a couple of times with my manual transmission, scares the heck out of me when it happens! I'm sure someone with an automatic can confirm or deny the rev limiter. .

Originally Posted by I1ULUZ It will just up shift vice hitting the fuel cut rev limiter.

I'm sure you are correct if you are in Drive. What if you had your gear selector in 2 or 3?

.