Someone saw a red one in Deleware at least a month ago. At any rate, cars coming off the line right now are not saleable cars. They are at best pre-production cars intended to test the tooling, and the vehicles the tooling makes. However, it could also still be a custom made prototype too. Either way, nothing is set in stone until production cars are rolling down the line which is not going to happen until May 16 based on the dealers on the forum. That gives them plenty of time to make changes and alterations.
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Solstice and Sky Fan
Retired Solstice Forum Super Moderator (Apr 2005-July 2009)
Someone saw a red one in Deleware at least a month ago. At any rate, cars coming off the line right now are not saleable cars. They are at best pre-production cars intended to test the tooling, and the vehicles the tooling makes. However, it could also still be a custom made prototype too. Either way, nothing is set in stone until production cars are rolling down the line which is not going to happen until May 16 based on the dealers on the forum. That gives them plenty of time to make changes and alterations.
So Ff88, then why do we keep pleading and asking GM to show us the top?. If I read you correctly unless you ( the forum) see a production model, seen anything else is not what you all want, I am confuse. By the way I am not picking on you, is just that there is a lot of talk but when the opportunity is presented to us then no one takes action.
Someone saw a red one in Deleware at least a month ago. At any rate, cars coming off the line right now are not saleable cars. They are at best pre-production cars intended to test the tooling, and the vehicles the tooling makes. However, it could also still be a custom made prototype too. Either way, nothing is set in stone until production cars are rolling down the line which is not going to happen until May 16 based on the dealers on the forum. That gives them plenty of time to make changes and alterations.
With 10 weeks to SOP, there will be no major plans to change anything. The only things that will be changed from here to SOP will be problems. And... if there were still problems with the top (a major component) then the SOP date would not be confirmed. Granted, nobody likes to push back SOP... it's VERY expensive... but if the problem can not be sorted, or reworked, then the car wouldn't get built.
By saleable, I'm referring to the GM builds, in which there are many... near the SOP date they increase in frequency, and have non-saleable and saleable builds. Saleable simply means the parts in the car are production intent (at least as closely as can be)... all parts should have been off production tooling (from every supplier), and produced a production rates, so that the result would be a car with the same parts and quality as will roll off the assembly line after SOP. Saleable does not me that the car will be sent to a dealership and sold.
Ff88... I love reading your posts, and find your posts informative... however, in this instance having been in the automotive world for a good deal of time, I'm inclined to say any vehicle built since February (the last build date I am aware of) will be 99.9% as production will be. Even if it is not a saleable build in February. Also, having some knowledge of what's going on with "problem areas" of this car I have confidence that the top is not changing at this point and that the issues which were being noticed have been resolved.
With 10 weeks to SOP, there will be no major plans to change anything. The only things that will be changed from here to SOP will be problems. And... if there were still problems with the top (a major component) then the SOP date would not be confirmed. Granted, nobody likes to push back SOP... it's VERY expensive... but if the problem can not be sorted, or reworked, then the car wouldn't get built.
By saleable, I'm referring to the GM builds, in which there are many... near the SOP date they increase in frequency, and have non-saleable and saleable builds. Saleable simply means the parts in the car are production intent (at least as closely as can be)... all parts should have been off production tooling (from every supplier), and produced a production rates, so that the result would be a car with the same parts and quality as will roll off the assembly line after SOP. Saleable does not me that the car will be sent to a dealership and sold.
Ff88... I love reading your posts, and find your posts informative... however, in this instance having been in the automotive world for a good deal of time, I'm inclined to say any vehicle built since February (the last build date I am aware of) will be 99.9% as production will be. Even if it is not a saleable build in February. Also, having some knowledge of what's going on with "problem areas" of this car I have confidence that the top is not changing at this point and that the issues which were being noticed have been resolved.
Then if the top is done and not changing, why the secrecy and lack of pics? Just because pictures of top down convertibles are sexier? They will have to ship from the factory to the dealers with the top up. Unless they use the Saturn delivery trailers with the side curtains.
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Pontiac 1926-2010
"We hardly knew 'ya"
Confusion say: "If it ain't broke...give government a crack at it."
So Ff88, then why do we keep pleading and asking GM to show us the top?. If I read you correctly unless you ( the forum) see a production model, seen anything else is not what you all want, I am confuse. By the way I am not picking on you, is just that there is a lot of talk but when the opportunity is presented to us then no one takes action.
Maybe nobody had the opportunity to take action. I don't know how many people live close to the proving grounds, but forum members are spread out across the country so its probably a small percentage. Say we do have a couple people that could have run over there that night. What would they see in the dark? The next morning? If it was still there, we would need someone who could do it around there work schedule. Maybe for the couple members who could have seen it, getting there just wasn't feasable.
Besides, seeing it at a great distance from the other side of a fence won't tell us much more than we know anyway.
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Solstice and Sky Fan
Retired Solstice Forum Super Moderator (Apr 2005-July 2009)
Ff88... I love reading your posts, and find your posts informative... however, in this instance having been in the automotive world for a good deal of time, I'm inclined to say any vehicle built since February (the last build date I am aware of) will be 99.9% as production will be. Even if it is not a saleable build in February. Also, having some knowledge of what's going on with "problem areas" of this car I have confidence that the top is not changing at this point and that the issues which were being noticed have been resolved.
Don't worry about disagreeing with me. If I am not right, I certainly would prefer the correct information thrown up on the forum then to have misinformation continue to be seen as the truth. No big deal. In this case, I'll go by your industry experience. I was just throwing out posibilities anyway in a devil's advocate sort of way.
My belief has been that the top is done, and has been done for some time. However, GM does not want to draw attention to the fact that it is not as easy and quick to put up or down as the Miata's will be, and therefore has chosen not to show it. That allows them to concentrate on the positive aspect of the top's design, the fact that it is completely hidden when it is down.
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Solstice and Sky Fan
Retired Solstice Forum Super Moderator (Apr 2005-July 2009)
...is just that there is a lot of talk but when the opportunity is presented to us then no one takes action....
1) if you want to hang out aroung the Proving Ground with a camera and talk to the lovely security guards that are very likely to come around and have a conversation, have at it. It's not a fun situation, I'm sure.
2) even if we live in SE MI, we have had snow and inclement weather the last several days, and it's inconvenient to go hunting for a car that's likely only temporarily parked in the area for shipping prep.
3) not all of us have a super-wazoo telephoto camera, which is likely what would be required to snap a good picture of a car inside the grounds - there is at least 100 yards between the public road and any parking areas or roads inside the grounds, with a 10' privacy fence around most of it (the type of fence with the green stuff woven in, making a long photo shot of anything almost impossible).
All due respect rlhammon, your info about the car being there may be correct, but I've seen the gate which you are referring, and I doubt anyone could get a clear shot at anything parked in the shipping lot without pulling into the gate.
In fact, the only areas of the grounds that you can get a clear shot at a car are areas where the car is in motion - almost impossible for a clear shot with a digital camera and a telephoto lens, due to the light and shutter speeds required (even the newer SLR cameras). I bet it would take prolly close to $2000 worth of camera equipment and a soul with enough b@lls to sit on a shoulder with such a lens on a camera and tell security to nicely go away....
....someone like Jim Dunne. Apparently not someone like me or anyone else in the SE MI area.
and
4) Not all of us that LIVE in SE MI are necessarily IN SE MI at the time - folks like us go to Disneyland or Grand Cayman Island sometimes in the winter, y'know...
1) if you want to hang out aroung the Proving Ground with a camera and talk to the lovely security guards that are very likely to come around and have a conversation, have at it. It's not a fun situation, I'm sure.
2) even if we live in SE MI, we have had snow and inclement weather the last several days, and it's inconvenient to go hunting for a car that's likely only temporarily parked in the area for shipping prep.
3) not all of us have a super-wazoo telephoto camera, which is likely what would be required to snap a good picture of a car inside the grounds - there is at least 100 yards between the public road and any parking areas or roads inside the grounds, with a 10' privacy fence around most of it (the type of fence with the green stuff woven in, making a long photo shot of anything almost impossible).
All due respect rlhammon, your info about the car being there may be correct, but I've seen the gate which you are referring, and I doubt anyone could get a clear shot at anything parked in the shipping lot without pulling into the gate.
In fact, the only areas of the grounds that you can get a clear shot at a car are areas where the car is in motion - almost impossible for a clear shot with a digital camera and a telephoto lens, due to the light and shutter speeds required (even the newer SLR cameras). I bet it would take prolly close to $2000 worth of camera equipment and a soul with enough b@lls to sit on a shoulder with such a lens on a camera and tell security to nicely go away....
....someone like Jim Dunne. Apparently not someone like me or anyone else in the SE MI area.
and
4) Not all of us that LIVE in SE MI are necessarily IN SE MI at the time - folks like us go to Disneyland or Grand Cayman Island sometimes in the winter, y'know...
Well BOB/SM what I think is Rlhammon is one of your people and in an inderect way, GM were trying to tells us to go look, see we left it there for you boys and girls, and no, the guards have been told to leave you alone this time.
Last edited by LatinVenom : 03-03-2005 at 10:30 AM.
Well BOB/SM what I think is Rlhammon is one of your people and in an inderect way, GM were trying to tells us to go look, see we left it there for you boys and girls, and no, the guards have been told to leave you alone this time.
Don't I wish I worked with GM... well, actually I don't think I wish that, and I don't work for any of the OEM's... however I don't think at this point it's any surprise that I am somehow related to a supplier or in some way work for a company which does business for at least GM and maybe other OEM's. I'm sure others on here have similar working situations.
Back to the point at discussion now (the car and not the e-mail to Bob Lutz), you could see the car from Gate C (aka. Contractor's Gate), but only if you knew what it was. Yes, Solsticeman you're probally right that you'd have to pull up into the gate... I've never been there outside of business hours so not sure what the guard situation is like at that time. But that's not the point... Solsticeman is correct in that guards will show up quickly if you are stopped around the grounds, even if you are inside your car. The only reason I even posted the information was in case someone (non-automotive world) was in the area and could stop by and provide some information to the forum. Knowing that the car was sitting there at the end of the day and was going to be there until morning (most likely) it provided one of the rare times in which someone might be able to stop and see the car. Most of the other reports have been seeing the Solstice on the road, which in itself is a rather rare thing.
In hindsight, I wish I wouldn't have said anything. I haven't caused any problems per se, but still... I guess it wasn't a productive post and didn't contribute at all to the forum.
I emailed to gm and politely requested they pass along my request for top info to Solsticeman, I mean Bob, and this is the somewhat canned response I got:
Quote:
Thank you for contacting Pontiac and for your interest in the 2006 Pontiac Solstice! We apologize, but we are not able to forward your email to Robert Lutz. We also apologize that we do not have access to a picture of the production Solstice with the top up. We are able to tell you that the 2006 Solstice will not have an available option for an automatic top or hardtop. We should have more pictures available in summer of 2005 or you can keep in contact with your preferred Pontiac dealer, since they will be the first informed of new information.
We hope that this information is helpful to you. If you have any additional questions or would like to receive product information on any of our other vehicles, you may write back or contact Pontiac at 1-800-762-2737, between 8:00am - 11:00pm Eastern Time, seven days per week. Thank you for contacting Pontiac!
She did leave room for speculation that maybe 07 or 08 we may see power top and hardtop. Note she said the "2006 Solstice" would not have these options, not the "Solstice" would not.
__________________
When more than one friend wants to ride shotgun
Pontiac 1926-2010
"We hardly knew 'ya"
Confusion say: "If it ain't broke...give government a crack at it."
Lutz is a VERY busy man. You really shouldn't be bothering him with e-mails, even if you do know what his e-mail is. Honestly, in the big scheme of things, the Solstice/Sky is small fry - low volume, low profit potential, limited MSRP... do you really think he doesn't know that we all want to see the top.
Take advantage of the blogs, contact pontiac directly and work the phones (remember, those things that you put up to your ear and talk - actually INTERACT, real-time, with another person), use your charm... work up the ladder through avenues (there's a phone number on the e-mail two posts back, start there...)
But if there a bunch of folks bugging Lutz through e-mail, you may just end up in a semi-spam-filter being installed, which could also prevent legitimate internal low-level-organization communication directly to the top.
Just my $0.02, but it's a fine line between seeking information and hi-volume, low-value e-mail.
Lutz is a VERY busy man. You really shouldn't be bothering him with e-mails, even if you do know what his e-mail is. Honestly, in the big scheme of things, the Solstice/Sky is small fry - low volume, low profit potential, limited MSRP... do you really think he doesn't know that we all want to see the top.
Take advantage of the blogs, contact pontiac directly and work the phones (remember, those things that you put up to your ear and talk - actually INTERACT, real-time, with another person), use your charm... work up the ladder through avenues (there's a phone number on the e-mail two posts back, start there...)
But if there a bunch of folks bugging Lutz through e-mail, you may just end up in a semi-spam-filter being installed, which could also prevent legitimate internal low-level-organization communication directly to the top.
Just my $0.02, but it's a fine line between seeking information and hi-volume, low-value e-mail.
Looks like Bob's, errrr, S-Man's, Inbox is full
p.s. I sent mine to the blog contact. No response
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