Fiero discussion [broken out of NJ fire thread]

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by Ex-Miata Man Don't forget that mine was the result of a defective part in the steering column and not actually a wiring problem. The part was not manufactured by GM, just bought by them from another manufacturer. Mine was a "one-in-a-million" fire. Let's wait and see what the real problem was before we jump the gun. I appreciate Solli's concern, especially since she's a special friend and my fire shook us all up. Hopefully we find out that the fire was the result of an outside source and not anything to do with the car. I can honestly say that when I get behind the wheel of my car I don't even have a second thought about an air bag problem or a fire. I drive my car without any reservations and I let my three daughters drive my car....and I never worry about the air bag or a fire with them behind the wheel.

I hate to do it, but I think I'm just going to call a spade a spade. A "one in a million" is the excuse I use for nearly everything that breaks on my car.

This is what's gone wrong since I've owned it:

1. As I stand right now, I've personally re-tightened the convertible top handle 3 times. Once I took it in when it was under warranty (I figured, I'll let them deal with it). I finally did it myself and put some blue lock-tite on it.
2. The silver plastic sheath slides right off the emergency brake handle any time I feel like doing it. So I assume something's broken inside.
3. The paint has rubbed completely off most of the area surrounding my shifter.
4. The hood needed to be adjusted right from the get go (which I did myself) because the cowl shake was pertty bad.
5. The differential leaked, and I had to have it serviced.
6. Just today, I pulled the door handle, and it ripped right out of the door. (that's right)
7. The plastic plate behind the inner door pull is cracked.

Look, I think the engine, transmission, and the chassis are totally solid on this car. I think they're extremely durable. I think the engine and transmission can take a huge beating, and I think the chassis was very well designed, and very high in quality.

But, the rest of the car, in particular the interior and a lot of other components are typical of a lot of cheap GM. I absolutely HATE Toyota with every fiber of my being, and I dislike Honda almost as much. I think they're stupid cars, they look retarded, and every other negative thing I can associate with it. But the fact of the matter is that GM has a lot of issues with unreliability because of stupid decisions they make in upper management, and the ridiculous concessions they've made to the unions over the years. The unions are bleeding money from them left and right with unfair and uncompetetive employment practices, as well as ridiculously stupid decisions in upper management.

Lets take the latest one. GM has had a hydrogen powered GMC Arcadia and Envoy for as long as they've had those models. They've had a hydrogen powered Envoy since 2004. They've been showing it around at car shows, taking it everywhere, and they've been 100% ready to build it now for at least the past 3 years, but they keep putting it off, and making stupid decisions. Just last month, Honda announced that they are going to release the first hydrogen powered car in California next month. GM has had this technology at least 3 years before them, and they could have released it at minimum as soon as 2005. Why did they wait so long? Why are they so retarded?

And I'm debating whether or not to actually even take my car in to the dealership to get any of this stuff fixed because I know that I can do a better job. Most GM dealerships employ some of the most inexperienced people I've ever seen. I would honestly rather buy the parts myself on GMPartsDirect.COM, and install them myself than take my car to a dealership for free and have them break other stuff.

[Ex-Miata Man]

82-T/A,
I agree with you totally about the interior and the "cheapening" that has happened. I also agree with you on how strong the engine, suspension, chassis and basic frame is on our car. We've see that too many times as a result of cars in wrecks where the drivers and passengers have walked away without injury. We have a fantastic car that should have had an extra $500 put into the base model during the design to give us less plastic and more servicability. But Bob Lutz said under $20K and our interior and many other things got cut to keep the cost down. I wish he had said under $21K so I also wouldn't have had to replace a door handle or have an emergency brake that has a loose bazel or a chrome plastic ring around the shifter that marks up too easily. I look forward to the retirement of my car, not because I want to get rid of Nittany, because I really love her, but because I look forward to getting past so many of the little quirks that have plagued the first couple of years of Sols. I look forward to see what the first "remake" will bring. I hope it includes an upgrade to the interior and a general overmake to the "weak" points around the car in general. The point was made by GM that they could build a fantastic car at an unbelievable cost, now they need to fix the quirks and let us move on from here.....even if that means paying a little more to get the car. With gas prices going as high as they are, our Sols should actually be getting more attention from buyers in the market right now. We get great gas mileage, the insurance companies seem to love us and even the car magazines are finally saying customer satisfaction is high. Now all we need is to have a vehicle without so many little quirks. JMHO

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by solli4me Todd, Ex-Miata Man is the person whose car caught fire. The little annoying quirks are just that: annoying. However, the guys in the TLC tent at the MECCA Reunion Tour took pains to address some of the fit and finish issues and they did one heck of a job for the people who were able to visit the plant. The rear differential problem is not so isolated - many of us have had issues with it - if I remember correctly, the problems stem from a part that was unauthorized but again, GM has addressed it through the recall.

Sorry man, I don't consider the door handle ripping away from the drivers side door to be a "quirk". It's something that will need to be repaired. 99.95% of the people who own this car would need to take the car back to the dealership to get repaired.

I now have to take the entire inner door panel off just to get to that part. And I really have to do some sole searching to see if I want to risk having someone scratch my car (which they'll do because they don't give a crap).

Like I said I still like the car, I have no intentions of getting rid of it. I consider myself to be a "Pontiac" guy. My personal web site is Pontiac Performance .NET You can go there and see that I've owned over 11 Pontiacs in the 14 years I've been driving. So I'm not a troll, or a first-time Pontiac owner that's succumbed to the hype about American cars being unreliable.

I've had "stupid" stuff go wrong... like I had a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am SE that I bought used in August of 2000 with 32k miles on it. I beat the piss out of that car. I mean, I did maintain it, but I really drove it hard. It ran like a top all the time, gave me 27 miles to the gallon (2.4 LD9 Twin Cam and 4T60E / GX3 3.33:1 Automatic Transmission). I only had the occasional silly things go wrong, like the fabric started to delaminate from the interior door panels around the door pull. Or like a little plastic latch on the glove box broke. But things like the door handle... that stuff just doesn't, and shouldn't break. I put 120k miles on that car, and it still ran excellent until it was in an accident (I loaned out the car).

I've still got the very first car I ever bought, my 1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6. I bought it a few months before I turned 18. I've never had a door handle break.

GM took a huge hit with leaking intake manifolds and bad emissions equipment on the motors in the late 90s, but they've really come a long way in the engine / transmission department. But they completely let their interiors and body parts pay for that. The interior quality of my Fiero is totally superior. With the exception of my warping shift surround, the interior looks as good today as it did when it was new.

My 87 Fiero has spent at least 10 years in the Florida sun until I've relagated it to a permenant garage spot. The dash is perfect. No warping or cracking. I can already see the dash starting to warp on my Solstice near the defrost vent.

It's ridiculous... and I'm pissed to say the least. This door handle just put me over the edge.

[imaj]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A Sorry man, I don't consider the door handle ripping away from the drivers side door to be a "quirk". It's something that will need to be repaired. 99.95% of the people who own this car would need to take the car back to the dealership to get repaired. I now have to take the entire inner door panel off just to get to that part. And I really have to do some sole searching to see if I want to risk having someone scratch my car (which they'll do because they don't give a crap). Like I said I still like the car, I have no intentions of getting rid of it. I consider myself to be a "Pontiac" guy. My personal web site is Pontiac Performance .NET You can go there and see that I've owned over 11 Pontiacs in the 14 years I've been driving. So I'm not a troll, or a first-time Pontiac owner that's succumbed to the hype about American cars being unreliable. I've had "stupid" stuff go wrong... like I had a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am SE that I bought used in August of 2000 with 32k miles on it. I beat the piss out of that car. I mean, I did maintain it, but I really drove it hard. It ran like a top all the time, gave me 27 miles to the gallon (2.4 LD9 Twin Cam and 4T60E / GX3 3.33:1 Automatic Transmission). I only had the occasional silly things go wrong, like the fabric started to delaminate from the interior door panels around the door pull. Or like a little plastic latch on the glove box broke. But things like the door handle... that stuff just doesn't, and shouldn't break. I put 120k miles on that car, and it still ran excellent until it was in an accident (I loaned out the car). I've still got the very first car I ever bought, my 1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6. I bought it a few months before I turned 18. I've never had a door handle break. GM took a huge hit with leaking intake manifolds and bad emissions equipment on the motors in the late 90s, but they've really come a long way in the engine / transmission department. But they completely let their interiors and body parts pay for that. The interior quality of my Fiero is totally superior. With the exception of my warping shift surround, the interior looks as good today as it did when it was new. My 87 Fiero has spent at least 10 years in the Florida sun until I've relagated it to a permenant garage spot. The dash is perfect. No warping or cracking. I can already see the dash starting to warp on my Solstice near the defrost vent. It's ridiculous... and I'm pissed to say the least. This door handle just put me over the edge.

Fiero interiors are not that great. How is your Fiero Steering wheel doing? Also, the bottoms of the vents by the doors...Are they cracked? Does your gas gauge work? Fieros are notorious for a few things going wrong. But don't all cars have a few bad parts?

I agree...the Solstice interior is cheap. I only have 5000 on my GXP...So I am sure that I will have a few things go wrong. I really hate the plastic doors and the dash. Also, the piece that covers the gauges and radio will scratch like crazy. Oh well. The car is a beauty!

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by imaj Fiero interiors are not that great. How is your Fiero Steering wheel doing? Also, the bottoms of the vents by the doors...Are they cracked? Does your gas gauge work? Fieros are notorious for a few things going wrong. But don't all cars have a few bad parts? I agree...the Solstice interior is cheap. I only have 5000 on my GXP...So I am sure that I will have a few things go wrong. I really hate the plastic doors and the dash. Also, the piece that covers the gauges and radio will scratch like crazy. Oh well. The car is a beauty!

- Fiero Steering Wheel, the leather is starting to sag, but it's a 21 year old car with 140k miles on it!
- The bottoms of my vents by the doors are immaculate. Same with the spare dash that I have too. They only break because people tend to get out of the car all silly and kick it with the back of their heel. Mine are fine though.
- The gas gauge does work, I've owned 6 Fieros (seriously) and I've never had the gas gauge fail on any of them. Four V6s, and 2 4 cyls. I think maybe I had 7 Fieros? I don't remember.

Fieros do have stuff going wrong, cracking exhaust manifolds (which I never had happen), slipping 4 cyl belts on the early 84-86 models (especially the 84 model). And a lot of unreliability in terms of sensors and other silly things.

But for the most part, the car was solid. I bought my 87 Fiero with just 30 thousand miles on it way back when. My first problem with it didn't happen until it hit around 80 thousand miles.

I JUST hit 20,000 miles on my Solstice, and I've already had a ton of stuff break on it (I'm not including my gasket issues since those are related to the car being modified and that doesn't REALLY count).

The interior in the Solstice is extremely cheap. Parts of my car were broken at the factory and re-attached with double sided duct tape. It just doesn't get much crapier than that.

Look, I'm a huge fan of Pontiacs. Like I said, I named my web site after it Todd's Cars & Projects

But the Solstice interior is just totally jacked up. It's a great car, but they really need to fix this stuff. I'm not so much of a blind follower that I'm going to delusion myself into thinking that everything that goes wrong with my car is 1 in a million or that it's a factory fluke (like all Honda and Toyota owners do with their cars). I realize full well that the entire interior cabin (minus the seats) are total crap. The best designed component in the interior is the seats actually! And I don't even think GM even made those!

I'm just so pissed now that I've got a laundry list of interior components that need to be replaced.

I know this may freak some of you out, or upset some of you that I'm complaining about our awesome car... but I've paid my dues, I'm allowed to bi1ch...

[RevmanII]

Don't forget the internals of the headlight motors that break into little pieces .

and the door hinge pins and bushings.

I had several Fieros too. First was an '87 2m4 with a little over 100k and a rod knock. Rebuilt it and sold it still running like a top at 198k . 2 GT's and the kit car with the V8 in it . Nothing but problems with the GT's .

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by RevmanII Don't forget the internals of the headlight motors that break into little pieces . and the door hinge pins and bushings. I had several Fieros too. First was an '87 2m4 with a little over 100k and a rod knock. Rebuilt it and sold it still running like a top at 198k . 2 GT's and the kit car with the V8 in it . Nothing but problems with the GT's .

By responding to this... I'm not saying the Fiero is a better car. I'm suggesting that Pontiac has gone down-hill with the interiors. Their engines and transmissions are totally TOP NOTCH. The 4T60E was a little iffy (like glass if you will) for a few years, but they've corrected some issues since the late 90s which have made it a really decent transmission.

But, I never had any door hing pins and / or bushings go bad. Only in my Trans Ams / Camaros.

The headlight motors in the Fiero (87-88) have a nylon cylendar which sits between the gears. That's the contact point between the gears that transferrs the power. They are sacraficial, so to speak. The headlight motor (as with other service and chassis items) need to be lubricated. The slider pads under the headlight motor need to be lubricated as do the joints. When this hasn't been done in a while, or the headlights encounter an obstruction, the motor will basically destroy those nylon cylendars. Pontiac sells them for about $50 for the rebuild kit, but as you know... Rodney Dickman sells them for $5 for each headlight.

This is really a maintenance item (as are bushings on the door pins, I would think).

Of course, those nylon bushings could fail simly due to their age and getting brittle... and you could replace them with a steel nut. But, then you'd be putting much more strain on the motor.

Both my headlights work after 21 years.

I never had any issues with 84-86 headlight motors though. I've heard they are unrebuildable?


My point however is that all of these things in all of these cars are things that happen to cars when they get old. I got my car in December of 2005. It has just a hair over 20k miles now.

The same goes for my friend's Chevy Cobalt. The metallic paint or plastic that covers the door handles flaked off (it's actually a metal plating of some sort) and cut one of his passenger's hands as he was trying to get out of the car. Interior fabric delaminated from the door panels (in that same car) after only a year of owning it. Both of these things happened with the car having less than 15k miles.

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by RevmanII Don't forget the internals of the headlight motors that break into little pieces . and the door hinge pins and bushings. I had several Fieros too. First was an '87 2m4 with a little over 100k and a rod knock. Rebuilt it and sold it still running like a top at 198k . 2 GT's and the kit car with the V8 in it . Nothing but problems with the GT's .

Oh, and by the way, I LOVE my 87 Fiero SE / V6 and I'm never going to sell it. In 35 years from now, I'm going to be 65 and still driving it.

I probably won't ever sell my 2006 Pontiac Solstice. Or my 73 VW Bus, or my 2002 Crown Victoria (it was my grand fathers).

[RevmanII]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A Oh, and by the way, I LOVE my 87 Fiero SE / V6 and I'm never going to sell it. In 35 years from now, I'm going to be 65 and still driving it. I probably won't ever sell my 2006 Pontiac Solstice. Or my 73 VW Bus, or my 2002 Crown Victoria (it was my grand fathers).

That's cool . If I had a huge garage I probably would have kept some the cars I've had. Living in the northeast though the vehicles need indoor storage if you want keep them decent.

The SE you have listed as a 3.2. I'm assuming that's some custom work? If I remember correctly, the 6's were 2.6 or 2.8.

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by RevmanII That's cool . If I had a huge garage I probably would have kept some the cars I've had. Living in the northeast though the vehicles need indoor storage if you want keep them decent. The SE you have listed as a 3.2. I'm assuming that's some custom work? If I remember correctly, the 6's were 2.6 or 2.8.

Yeah, they came stock as 2.8s. The engine I have is really nothing that special. The 87 Fiero SE / V6 was one of only 1,400 V6 SEs ever made though, so that makes it the 2nd rarest model (second to the L4 SE 87 which they only made something like 1200). That's even less than the Indy. But it's a good example of one of those times where rarity doesn't mean value... hahah..

So yeah, it's a 2.8 with 3.1 crank and rods, and a .040 overbore Hyperutectic pistsons for a total compression of ~9.2-9.3:1. It has 1.52:1 Crane roller rockers, Cloyes roller timing chain, SI stainless steel valves, Darrel Morse 57mm bored throttle body, 17lb Accel fuel injectors, Accel supercoil, everything was port-matched and polished. I did a little bit of work to the heads too. With everything I'm saying, you'd think that I would have gained 100+ horsepower, but the stock intake plenum is rather restrictive. Everyone asks me why I bother, why I don't get one of those aftermarket intakes for the Fiero. But I guess the reason is because even with the aftermarket intake, it'll still run at best a mid 14 in the quarter. I've modified the car enough, and driven enough quicker cars to know that now I want nothing more than to keep it original. The interior and exterior are all totally stock. I have upgraded GM brakes, and slightly larger tires in the rear than what is stock (on the OEM 15" wheels from a Fiero GT). The engine is DEFINITELY more powerful, but it gets choked around 4,500 rpms... and there's not much I can do about it. When it seems reasonable, I might have the entire setup extrude-honed. (intake plenum, runners, and intake manifold). It's really the plenum.

The cam that I had in there was decent, but it just didn't last. I should have used better oil (shell rotella) because a couple of the cam lobes wore down. I'm going to order a Crane H272 from Summit as soon as my government tax rebate comes in.

When all is said and done, I expect high 14s from the car, and that'll be it. I'll be happy with it like that. The best part about it is though... that the engine looks 100% stock. You could literally NOT tell the difference. I even painted the yellow Accel ignition coil, and the yellow Accel fuel injectors with black engine paint so they look like the OEM ones. It's awesome...

[normsf]

Hello well I have to say I love Fieros, been working on them since 1985. Heres a few blantant examples. Thanks Norm norm's fiberglass home page

[perris]

so, who's gonna put the turbo eco motor in a fiero?

would it work?

[normsf]

Hello well I got a GXP motor and harness with a 88 fiero 5spd that Im thinking of doing just that. No Im not going to sell them, LOL. However I have about 5 major projects first. Thanks Norm.

[turboman808]

Ah the fiero. I had several of them as a kid. They worked fairly well but dam if I didn't go thru clutches alot. But it's biggest problem was the driver couldn't drive as well as he liked to think he did. Wrecked and totaled 2 of them.

[SolsticeMan]

One of the problems with an LNF install is the location and efficiency of the Charge Air Cooler. Without a good, clean, cool airflow the LNF will be pulling spark under boost.