GM and Government Ownership Question

[mimeauja]

Government, morality, church, law

There are several ways to look at these, they could be viewed as was said, or, at the same time they can be ways to control others. I do believe that some controls are necessary, however, things are getting excessive.

The essense of freedom is the right to choose. If you give an inch of your freedom, the hypothetical 'they', will (and have) take a mile.

GM chose to go down the path it has chosen, and consumers chose not to follow. We did buy GM cars, but majority rules in this case, unfortunately for us, but probably better for everyone (if the government had stayed out of it and let natural selection work).

Everything in life is choice and consequence, it's time people in this great country of ours open their damned eyes.

EDIT: On my first paragraph, I have to clarify that I believe people have twisted well intentioned guidelines into ways of controlling people to get what they want. On my last sentence let me point out that I'm tired of paying for moronic mistakes of others, people who are lazy sods, and people who just exist to violate our freedoms. Those people can rot in whatever place of torment they believe in...and if they don't believe in one, I'll pick one for them.

[sahein]

Originally Posted by KappaKadet Unfortunately, it's not just the Democratic Party pushing this neosocialism. It is also their two propaganda wings , the mainstream media and the education establishment.

YouTube - REGULATION VACATION CELEBRATION!

[sahein]

Originally Posted by mimeauja There are several ways to look at these, they could be viewed as was said, or, at the same time they can be ways to control others. I do believe that some controls are necessary, however, things are getting excessive. The essense of freedom is the right to choose. If you give an inch of your freedom, the hypothetical 'they', will (and have) take a mile. GM chose to go down the path it has chosen, and consumers chose not to follow. We did buy GM cars, but majority rules in this case, unfortunately for us, but probably better for everyone (if the government had stayed out of it and let natural selection work). Everything in life is choice and consequence, it's time people in this great country of ours open their damned eyes. EDIT: On my first paragraph, I have to clarify that I believe people have twisted well intentioned guidelines into ways of controlling people to get what they want. On my last sentence let me point out that I'm tired of paying for moronic mistakes of others, people who are lazy sods, and people who just exist to violate our freedoms. Those people can rot in whatever place of torment they believe in...and if they don't believe in one, I'll pick one for them.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. But you need to know that the ultimate freedom is anarchy. Therefore you must choose to cooperate to survive and do well. Police are socially funded as are firefighters and emt medics, roads are socially funded except for toll roads. How would you like every road to have toll required to travel and be controlled by a financial interest like a bank? Socialism is not the problem, nor is capitalism the problem, but like you stated, it is those that have twisted the good intentions of others so as to take advantage. We currently seem to be having more capitalistic than social problems.

[mimeauja]

I swear that you don't even know what socialism is, or you wouldn't be ok with it...that's the only possible reason I can think of. All I can say is, I'm not going to try and explain it to you, or even try to argue why you're wrong about it.

[PubliusE]

Originally Posted by sahein We currently seem to be having more capitalistic than social problems.

Well, maybe that is because we are a capitalistic society. If you think Europe's economy is strong you're crazy. I read the EU recently predicted that the region will be in a deep and widespread recession for the next two years. They reported there will be job loss of more than 8 million pushing the unemployment to 11%. The unemployment rate in Spain is at 14% and Poland is 11% currently. Europe is on a bigger slide than the US. Fact is some will argue the US is showing signs of coming out of the recession while Europe has yet to see the end in sight.

[sahein]

Originally Posted by mimeauja I swear that you don't even know what socialism is, or you wouldn't be ok with it...that's the only possible reason I can think of. All I can say is, I'm not going to try and explain it to you, or even try to argue why you're wrong about it.

I know what extreme socialism is and I know what extreme capitalism is. Neither are any good. If you are in a pure socialist society without membership it is a death warrant, and if you are in a pure capitalistic form without any money, it is a death warrant. Balanced against each other they create a synergy of habitable coexistence. This is what the US is. The US is based on balance. It is just currently out of balance due to long term ongoing corruption and needs put back into order. Look for those that are cooperating and those that are not, then closely decide their motives and decide which you want to support. Greed has gone out of control. With the current amount of greed, do you really think that you would have a chance in a pure capitalistic society?

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by sahein I know what extreme socialism is and I know what extreme capitalism is. Neither are any good. If you are in a pure socialist society without membership it is a death warrant, and if you are in a pure capitalistic form without any money, it is a death warrant. Balanced against each other they create a synergy of habitable coexistence. This is what the US is. The US is based on balance. It is just currently out of balance due to long term ongoing corruption and needs put back into order. Look for those that are cooperating and those that are not, then closely decide their motives and decide which you want to support. Greed has gone out of control. With the current amount of greed, do you really think that you would have a chance in a pure capitalistic society?

No, you DO NOT, understand the difference. There is no "fine line" and there is no 50/50.

It should be more like 20/80. 20% socialism, 80% capitalism.

The 20% includes public school, roads, military, etc.

The rest is our God given right to work hard. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and that's the sad, hard truth. What we ARE given in this country is a place where you can work your ass off, and if you have the right mettle, you can make something of yourself. This is not the place for loafers or lazy people.

I don't WANT hand outs. You said before... do I really want to go at this alone? Yes, I do... I don't want hand-outs, or subsidy. I want failures, and I want my successes. How am I to learn to succeed if I don't know what failure is? I've been lad off twice, once during the collapse of the tech boom (I'm a programmer) and another time less than a year later. It's no big deal, you dust yourself off, and you find another job. You deplete your savings trying to continue to pay for your appartment, and then rack up huge charges on your credit card just to stay alive. But that's part of being free... we learn our lessons. The more "parachutes" and "nets" we provide to catch people from falling, the more they are going to learn to rely on them and not learn how to bounce back.

That is what this is about... those of us who are WILLING to put in a hard days work, do not want to have to pay for those who are NOT. You might think that every person that's fallen on hard times is perfectly innocent of their situation. That's not always the case. I support government subsidy for people who really CAN'T help themselves... children, elderly, disabled, etc...

How many more countries do you need to see FAIL before you admit that socialism simply is NOT the way? Just look at what happened to Holland (or all of Europe for that matter) in the past 50 years? Holland was through and through capitalist. Their country quite literally was one of the world's economic power-houses... they owned the world's largest airline, bank, etc... nearly everyone in Holland (post WW2 recovery) was wealthy. Now look at the country... everyone lives extremely modestly, everyone harbors resentment for people with money, there are slums, immigration wars, racial hatred... none of this existed 50 years ago. All of Europe followed this path... and they're one of the most pathetic patch of land on this planet.

You want to see how Capitalism works? Take a look at China right now. They have slowly been moving from Communism to Capitalism, and they're one of (potentially THE largest) economic powerhouses of the world.

The United States, on the other hand, which slowly but surely becomes more and more socialist because of psychopaths like you, is quickly becoming less and less powerful.

Don't you realize that you're a scourge on this great country? I really hope you don't consider yourself an asset to this country... you are single handedly one of the reasons why this country is failing right now.

[silversolstice]

We are a mixed economy, we don't need to be throwing around absolutes.

The important part of this 200 post thread is knowing that Sahein is the minority. Many of us disagree with him and his comrades. You should be happy that it is just him keeping this retarded thread going. Nobody is going to change his mind and vice versa.

I think he is just screwing with us(I hope), but if he isn't who cares? If there were more of him and less of you other writers I would be more concerned. Obama will make his play to socialize large blocks of society, it will fail and somebody will come clean it up.

[sahein]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A No, you DO NOT, understand the difference. There is no "fine line" and there is no 50/50. It should be more like 20/80. 20% socialism, 80% capitalism. The 20% includes public school, roads, military, etc. The rest is our God given right to work hard. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and that's the sad, hard truth. What we ARE given in this country is a place where you can work your ass off, and if you have the right mettle, you can make something of yourself. This is not the place for loafers or lazy people. I don't WANT hand outs. You said before... do I really want to go at this alone? Yes, I do... I don't want hand-outs, or subsidy. I want failures, and I want my successes. How am I to learn to succeed if I don't know what failure is? I've been lad off twice, once during the collapse of the tech boom (I'm a programmer) and another time less than a year later. It's no big deal, you dust yourself off, and you find another job. You deplete your savings trying to continue to pay for your appartment, and then rack up huge charges on your credit card just to stay alive. But that's part of being free... we learn our lessons. The more "parachutes" and "nets" we provide to catch people from falling, the more they are going to learn to rely on them and not learn how to bounce back. That is what this is about... those of us who are WILLING to put in a hard days work, do not want to have to pay for those who are NOT. You might think that every person that's fallen on hard times is perfectly innocent of their situation. That's not always the case. I support government subsidy for people who really CAN'T help themselves... children, elderly, disabled, etc... How many more countries do you need to see FAIL before you admit that socialism simply is NOT the way? Just look at what happened to Holland (or all of Europe for that matter) in the past 50 years? Holland was through and through capitalist. Their country quite literally was one of the world's economic power-houses... they owned the world's largest airline, bank, etc... nearly everyone in Holland (post WW2 recovery) was wealthy. Now look at the country... everyone lives extremely modestly, everyone harbors resentment for people with money, there are slums, immigration wars, racial hatred... none of this existed 50 years ago. All of Europe followed this path... and they're one of the most pathetic patch of land on this planet. You want to see how Capitalism works? Take a look at China right now. They have slowly been moving from Communism to Capitalism, and they're one of (potentially THE largest) economic powerhouses of the world. The United States, on the other hand, which slowly but surely becomes more and more socialist because of psychopaths like you, is quickly becoming less and less powerful. Don't you realize that you're a scourge on this great country? I really hope you don't consider yourself an asset to this country... you are single handedly one of the reasons why this country is failing right now.

Balance does not always mean 50/50. You don't know me and I find myself in misbelief. It is very hard for me not to get angry with insulting shallow minded ingrates after defending and serving this country. But then I remember that some are worth it.

[GreyFox]

Originally Posted by sahein Balance does not always mean 50/50. You don't know me and I find myself in misbelief. It is very hard for me not to get angry with insulting shallow minded ingrates after defending and serving this country. But then I remember that some are worth it.

Well..Hell..Pal...
You ain't the only one who fought for this country...! However..I never sat back deciding just who was..and who wasn't worth fighting for. I've probably been insulted for being a Vet more than you ever dreamed of. Spit on by those fellow Americans holding dear to much of the philosophies you're vomiting out your mouth on this thread. I think you're a troll and a fraud. How's that for an insult. If not..you certainly have your head screwed on backwards. Rather than twisting facts and meanings to make yourself sound brilliant to yourself....why not take a look at history and consider other opinions..other than just your illustrious answers as only "worthy"....

[duckSol]

Originally Posted by GreyFox Well..Hell..Pal... You ain't the only one who fought for this country...! However..I never sat back deciding just who was..and who wasn't worth fighting for. I've probably been insulted for being a Vet more than you ever dreamed of. Spit on by those fellow Americans holding dear to much of the philosophies you're vomiting out your mouth on this thread. I think you're a troll and a fraud. How's that for an insult. If not..you certainly have your head screwed on backwards. Rather than twisting facts and meanings to make yourself sound brilliant to yourself....why not take a look at history and consider other opinions..other than just your illustrious answers as only "worthy"....

I was going to say something here

Swine Flu-will it kill us?

in post #39 but didn't because I did not want to be inflamatory like a TROLL.

So does this make me one of those ...insulting shallow minded ingrates...?

Or am I just a redneck who cares more now for a RATTLESNAKE on my flag than some stars and parallel stripes?

I am going to bed to get up at "Dawn's Early Light" and if sahein can give us the "other" name of this "revised poem," I will show more respect to him.

[Snugglebear]

You guys are getting way too serious again. As my late grandmother used to say, if we all were the same or thought the same, life wouldn't be nearly as entertaining. That's why I'm so happy there are so many special people, especially in California, to entertain me.

This may be 15-20 years old but it's still amazingly relevant.

YouTube - World Crisis with Mr. Horse

[GreyFox]

"Don't tread on Me" does still seem very apropos.
I just get very upset when someone seems to go for a sympathy vote by acknowledging or declaring that they have served this country. It is an honorable thing to do..and to some very much a duty. However..to use that as a position of prominence to somehow validate a radical foray among the "ingrates" can seem very irritating to some of us Vets who may have layed our lives on the line. Completely out of place....and dishonerable..in my view....but then..perhaps just another purposeful turn of the screw by a trolling shrew.

[rob the elder]

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Barry the socialist shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of capitalists;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in Detroit now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us to save the world from socialism.

Diversity in thought is important.

Freedom of spirit, action and from an oppressive government go hand in hand with capitalism.

Its important that while we continue to disagree, we show respect for each other.

I respect you no matter how wrong I believe your position to be goes both ways. Without respect and common decency we have anarchy and hatred which no one wants.

So feel free to disagree, but remember its a lot easier to get someone to listen and maybe be convinced of your position if you are still talking.

[sahein]

I guess you incorrectly consider me to be socialist because I tried to open your eyes and tried to explain the reality of it.

I see inmaturity in those who resort to insults instead of be able to logically state a point and also in those that have jumped to grossly incorrect conclusions.