GM and Government Ownership Question

[sahein]

Originally Posted by KappaKadet It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Look it up for yourself. As mayor of the city in 1978, Kucinich pushed Cleveland into "default"; at the same time earning the dubious distinction of becoming the first major US city in the modern era to have to declare bankruptcy.

I will consider this as opinion until you provide fact.

[sahein]

Obama 'confident' GM can thrive after restructuring - USATODAY.com

[sahein]

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&l=off&z=m&q=l&p=&a=&c=^SPX%2C^IXIC%2C^DJI& s=gm

[KappaKadet]

. . . zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .

[sahein]

Originally Posted by KappaKadet . . . zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .

A yawn is your proof?

[sahein]

GMAC reportedly plans to cut $1 billion in costs - May. 23, 2009

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by sahein I will consider this as opinion until you provide fact.

He, meaning KappaKadet, is right. I lived there in the mid to late 80s. Cleveland had major issues with economic management.

Dennis Kucinich on Budget & Economy

[sahein]

German leaders expect Opel decision by mid-week | Reuters

[sahein]

Originally Posted by StevieG He is right. I lived there in the mid to late 80s. Cleveland had major issues with economic management. Dennis Kucinich on Budget & Economy

While technically correct, I still like what he accomplished.

A: I want the people to know what the real story was. I took a stand on behalf of the people of Cleveland to save a municipal electric system. The banks and the utilities in Cleveland, the private utilities, were trying to force me to sell that system. And so on December 15th, 1978, I told the head of the biggest bank, when he told me I had to sell the system in order to get the city’s credit renewed, that I wasn’t going to do it. The people in Cleveland in 1994 asked me to come back to public life because at that point they expanded a municipal electric system that the banks demanded that I sell, and I showed the ability to stand up for the people.

[sahein]

He got lower electric rates for everybody by not selling the electric utility company to the bank. The propaganda outraged the people until they saw the light. Then they begged him to return to office.

Wikipedia excerpts:

Specifically, it was the Cleveland Trust Company that suddenly required all of the city's debts be paid in full, which forced the city into default, after news of Kucinich's refusal to sell the city utility. For years these debts were routinely rolled over, pending future payment, until Kucinich's announcement was made public. In 1998 the council honored him for having the "courage and foresight" to stand up to the banks and saving the city an estimated $195 million between 1985 and 1995.[17]


His voting record is not always in line with that of the Democratic Party. Kucinich voted against the USA PATRIOT Act, against the Military Commissions Act of 2006,[23] and was one of six who voted against the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Act.[24] He also voted for authorizing and directing the Committee on the Judiciary to investigate whether sufficient grounds existed for the impeachment of Bill Clinton.[25]


Dennis Kucinich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[rob the elder]

Arguing with a Liberal is like nailing jello to a tree.

#2: Switch Your Arguments
#4: Attack The Source
#6: Reductio ad Absurdum
Webster's Dictionary defines it as "a process of reasoning which involves the denial of the first of a series of dependent propositions as a consequence of the denial of the last", but YOU define it as "an invaluable arguing technique". Every child can understand "If that's true, then I'm a monkey's uncle" means "it's NOT true", because while you may be a monkey's great- grandnephew, you can't be its uncle.
#8: Hijack the Argument
#9: Play the Hate
How do you know your opponent hates you? Why, by his attacks on you, of course!
#11. Be subtly hypocritical (maybe no one will notice).

Additional reading
RWN's Favorite Quotes From Ann Coulter's 'How To Talk To A Liberal (If You Must)' - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)

How to argue like a liberal

Captain Capitalism: Why You Can't Argue With a Liberal

[sahein]

I'm glad I'm not a liberal or a righty or lefty. I haven't chosen any direction except to try to find the truth. If I had to choose I would probably consider myself to be a centrist. I am not the one using destructive reasoning. Look back through the threads and try to determine who is advancing those methods.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

[rob the elder]

I try to treat everyone with respect. I try to learn from everyone. One of the more humbling experiences in life is learning that I don't know everything and am on occasion actually wrong.

[sahein]

Banks May See Deal-Related Windfalls | Banks | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

[GreyFox]

'DO NOT FEED THE MONKEY'
{Stand well back from the cage}