your entire post demonstrates pedestrian understanding of marketing at best;
you're laughing at this?
marketing is NOT a "ploy" it's a business expense and if you don't think big business makes investments in marketing, taking loses in one arena to show gain in another, well, there you have it, pedestrian would be a kind description of your understanding
then you go on to say this gem;
errr...you have never heard of bad marketing concepts I see...interesting you have convinced yourself you know something about marketing
here's a news flash for ya;
the BIGGEST mistake they made with this car was the name, as car makers have made mistakes in nameplates in the past, they did it with this car and they know it, now you seem to think it's "throwing millions of dollars away" if they get rid of a marketing concept that in fact throws millions of dollars away, you are an interesting fellow
so, who is it you suppose doesn't have "a real job"
of course there are people "who are fine with the name", I am telling you more people would have bought the car if they came up with a better name
now, if you don't like my suggestions, I understand, and believe me,I knew some people wouldn't like my suggestion, I see you are among them.
that's fine, make your own to turn this car into a sucess however "leaving it the way it is" when what they have done was clearly not enough (they do have to retire the car don't they" is CERTAINLY not the way this car can remain on the market
so you have answered my pseudo expertise with;
nothing
wonderfull
Pedestrian, I am, but CORRECT, I also am. And, I fully understand your long original post on the Solstice. However, I disagree with most of it, just as Rob the Elder did. Respect that we disagree. Both the Solstice and Sky names suggest marketing brilliance, and the name has actual marketing meaning to me. I have no idea if GM would have sold more Kappas if they named them something different that Solstice or Sky. If you have some concrete information or marketing data to show that you know they would have sold more under a different nameplate, then please, share that with us here, Because INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW? I'd also like to know what you think is a better name for these Kappas rather that what they are currently named. What I do know is I personally don't need any more alpha numeric names like G4, G5, G6 and G8. Give it a name and I love Solstice.
__________________
Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
Perris, what would you have called it if not the Solstice. I'm not going to argue about your or my opinion of the name, but am curious to see what you'd rather have seen (P260?).
Secondly, my own opinion is that the lack of real marketing and solid promotion is what keeps sales down. As mentioned elsewhere, the fact that this car is now in its fourth year, with almost 100k units on the road, one would expect more people to know what it is. There are still far too many people asking what the Solstice is, and this is not just a bad connection between the name and the vehicle or vice versa. It almost seems like this was one of those "if you build it they will come" type of deals.
Pedestrian, I am, but CORRECT, I also am. And, I fully understand your long original post on the Solstice. However, I disagree with most of it, just as Rob the Elder did. Respect that we disagree. Both the Solstice and Sky names suggest marketing brilliance, and the name has actual marketing meaning to me. I have no idea if GM would have sold more Kappas if they named them something different that Solstice or Sky. If you have some concrete information or marketing data to show that you know they would have sold more under a different nameplate, then please, share that with us here, Because INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW? I'd also like to know what you think is a better name for these Kappas rather that what they are currently named. What I do know is I personally don't need any more alpha numeric names like G4, G5, G6 and G8. Give it a name and I love Solstice.
I see you believe you are correct, I believe I am correct, yet here we are, the solstice has failed
we can all try to figure out why but one thing is certain, it HAS failed, nobody can claim there was brilliance marketing this car, that is obviously incorrect
Steve, your post is completely different the Rob's, I understand that rob disagreed, I knew some people would, but this is a discussion, after all
I think if you search my posts, I said I thought the name for this car was awful even when we all thought the car was a huge success, now of course the name isn't the only reason this car failed but believe me, "solstice" does NOT make someone who hasn't seen the car want it, good nameplates ALWAYS make you want to see what the car is going to look like, this nameplate does not do that, for that reason I am confident the car would have done better with better branding
Perris, what would you have called it if not the Solstice. I'm not going to argue about your or my opinion of the name, but am curious to see what you'd rather have seen (P260?).
good question but no, I don't have a name in mind but here's a good article on just how important branding in a car is, and no, the branding of this car did not inspire too many people to go look at it, on the other hand the "thunderbird" did, the "mustang" did, the "stingray" did, the "solstice" not so much and that is the very point
Quote:
Secondly, my own opinion is that the lack of real marketing and solid promotion is what keeps sales down. As mentioned elsewhere, the fact that this car is now in its fourth year, with almost 100k units on the road, one would expect more people to know what it is. There are still far too many people asking what the Solstice is, and this is not just a bad connection between the name and the vehicle or vice versa. It almost seems like this was one of those "if you build it they will come" type of deals.
I happen to agree entireley with this paragraph, the car was so good that any marketing or promoting of the car should have made it a success even with the name and color pitch they came up with, they didn't push our car at all...they did have some great ideas but just didn't make their case
Owning Anniversary cars, I know. I have a "35th" Firebird, which celebrates the 35 years of Firebird production.
Most "Anniversary" Birds were to celebrate the Trans Am.
Original T/A in 1969
10th Anniv. T/A in 1979
15th Anniv. T/A in 1984
20th Anniv. T/A in 1989
25th Anniv. T/A in 1994
30th Anniv. T/A in 1999
Regardless of the date the car was built, it goes by model year and thats it. Like PT said, you start counting the Model year after the initial year.
__________________ Show Car: 2002 Trans Am Collector Edition #619 "Falcon" Fun Car and Daily Driver: 2009 N/A Aggressive Solstice!"Chief"
(ordered 6/28/08 - Built 7/23/08 - Delivered 9/12/08)
Last edited by BANDITCAR : 09-10-2008 at 08:40 PM.
I see you believe you are correct, I believe I am correct, yet here we are, the solstice has failed
we can all try to figure out why but one thing is certain, it HAS failed, nobody can claim there was brilliance marketing this car, that is obviously incorrect
Steve, your post is completely different the Rob's, I understand that rob disagreed, I knew some people would, but this is a discussion, after all
I think if you search my posts, I said I thought the name for this car was awful even when we all thought the car was a huge success, now of course the name isn't the only reason this car failed but believe me, "solstice" does NOT make someone who hasn't seen the car want it, good nameplates ALWAYS make you want to see what the car is going to look like, this nameplate does not do that, for that reason I am confident the car would have done better with better branding
but as you say, we can agree to disagree
We do disagree. That is OK by me, but I am trying to understand your concrete and confident belief that the name had something to do with this failure. I will list 10 reasons for its failure to me, in no particular order, but the name has nothing to do with it. The Solstice name, at marketing clinics I attended, had immediate recognition and was chosen after plenty of research, many nationwide clinics, and much debate. I think I was one of the few who felt let's wait and see in regards to the Solstice and its success. I recall many here, even you, jumping on the hype bandwagon a while back---you and others favorably comparing this car to BMW Z8s, Porsches, Nissan Zs, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis. I recall heated discussions. The failure of the Solstice relates to this to me.
1. A severe economic downturn--recession if you will.
2. A major increase in oil pricing and thus gasoline pricing.
3. A lack of consumer confidence such that all impulse, all discretionary spending, was severely curtailed. This explained a shrinking North American automobile market and a shrinking "sports car" market. Limited edition Z06s for 08 are still available at $12K off sticker for the "youpaywhatwepay" marketing scheme.
4. A poor marketing effort by GM in terms of a lack of continued advertisement and continued media playtime with the car after its overhyped release.
5. A lack of confidence by the consumer in the quality of GM vehicles, especially as relating to the Solstice with poor body panel fitments, uneven paint, poor top fitment, the differential and carrier issues, and the lack of interior refinement relative to its main competition, the MX-5 Miata.
6. A gouging and incredibly short-sighted dealer network that speculated and essentially stole from the consumer and may have forced many in the market in MY1 and MY2 to buy a used higher end vehicle or to buy a competitor vehicle such as an S2000 or MX-5 or a Audi TT when the $5K -$7K above sticker made the competitor a reasonable value relative to the inflated price set by dealership.
7. Overhyped expectations and performance of the base 2.4L engine and the media ripping this performance at the MY1 launch.
8. The whathaveyoudoneformelately factor--meaning, if it ain't new and fresh, many only consider the newer and fresher in the marketplace. Other new vehicles have come about and not everyone wanted GMs offerings which had only "minor" changes or upgrades.
9. In a faltering economy with a lack of consumer confidence, a purchase of a 2 seat convertible with limited practicality, and limited storage space, makes this purchase look unwise. Why not look at a G6 convertible which seats 4 and has more potential carrying space.
10. Many consumers are looking at alternative fuel vehicles, hybrids, plug in electrics, and the Solstice represents a conventional ICE with RWD---something which is classic to autophiles but not "new tech" at all to a fickle "green" consumer paying $7K above MSRP on a new Prius and trading in an upside down F-150 or Dodge Ram just to get into the hybrid hype.
That would be my common sense take, but this is just my opinion. I await your concrete marketing data as to how many more GM kappas would have sold with a different name than Solstice or Sky.
__________________
Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
My mistake in thinking they were. I stand corrected.
__________________
Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
good question but no, I don't have a name in mind but here's a good article on just how important branding in a car is, and no, the branding of this car did not inspire too many people to go look at it, on the other hand the "thunderbird" did, the "mustang" did, the "stingray" did, the "solstice" not so much and that is the very point
I happen to agree entireley with this paragraph, the car was so good that any marketing or promoting of the car should have made it a success even with the name and color pitch they came up with, they didn't push our car at all...they did have some great ideas but just didn't make their case
Again we disagree. The Solstice was not that good that marketing alone would have helped save it. Dealership gouging, its spotty quality and frequency of dealership visits for minor and major issues, all of the 10 I mentioned above played a role. i don't think the name played a role at all, again, just to me.
Your article hypertexted above and its authors lost me on this statement alone..."We think it's a shame that the Honda Life Dunk doesn't sell over here. Its goofy yet inspiring name would probably attract a fair number of buyers. "
Yeah, that's right. Pontiac Solstice is bad but Honda Life Dunk would have sold here. Nice logic.
__________________
Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
Location: Rosamond, CA - Home of Willow Springs Raceway
Quote:
10. Many consumers are looking at alternative fuel vehicles, hybrids, plug in electrics, and the Solstice represents a conventional ICE with RWD
Since we're taking shots in the dark, MANY hybrid owners LOVE my car and are shocked at its mileage. One lady in particular wanted to sell her Prius and get a Solstice. Interestingly, some of these so-called "green" types are quite familiar with the car and don't group it (or other sports cars for that matter) in with the so-called wasteful other performance cars (muscle cars specifically).
__________________
2007 Cool GXP with Darkside Top, 5 spd, Ebony Cloth, Monsoon with Single CD, Sport Pedals, XM, A/C Mods: K&N Drop-in Filter, Solo Performance Street/Race Exhaust, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec Tires, Eibach Pro-Kit Springs
That would be my common sense take, but this is just my opinion. I await your concrete marketing data as to how many more GM kappas would have sold with a different name than Solstice or Sky.
No offense but I've never seen concrete marketing data. It is an estimate at best, the same as when I run inpatient bed day or pharmaceutical cost projections out several years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieG
Again we disagree. The Solstice was not that good that marketing alone would have helped save it. Dealership gouging, its spotty quality and frequency of dealership visits for minor and major issues, all of the 10 I mentioned above played a role. i don't think the name played a role at all, again, just to me.
Your article hypertexted above and its authors lost me on this statement alone..."We think it's a shame that the Honda Life Dunk doesn't sell over here. Its goofy yet inspiring name would probably attract a fair number of buyers. "
Yeah, that's right. Pontiac Solstice is bad but Honda Life Dunk would have sold here. Nice logic.
Stevie, the Solstice quality has improved and is getting better still. Dealership gouging is also alleviating, and, at least regionally, started prior to the consumer pullback. A decent marketing effort would probably have pushed more units in CY2007, but given the consumer sentiment out there it would be useless at this point. At least out here in California, had there been greater availability of GXPs and some promotion, Pontiac would have moved many, many more units in 2007. Most lasted less than three days on lots, bought sight unseen.
Whatever the case, GM/Pontiac did drop the ball on the marketing/promotional front. TV spots were for brand awareness, not the car. The website had hardly any information. Dealerships were woefully uninformed. Those same dealers also did not have any print materials and rarely had any units on the lot to demo. Sadly, the best places for information were either in car rags, most of which did not favorably view the Solstice, or, if you got lucky with Google or newsgroups, this forum. I'm sorry, but expecting people to pop a woody when they're on a lot over a car the dealership probably doesn't have and making an impulse sale on a unit with a market-adjustment premium, just isn't good form.
As for the Life Dunk - seriously, it would sell. Have you seen how well the Scion box-o-wheels are doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mena661
Since we're taking shots in the dark, MANY hybrid owners LOVE my car and are shocked at its mileage. One lady in particular wanted to sell her Prius and get a Solstice. Interestingly, some of these so-called "green" types are quite familiar with the car and don't group it (or other sports cars for that matter) in with the so-called wasteful other performance cars (muscle cars specifically).
Most people buying a hybrid think it has magic smoke that makes it go farther. I can't tell you how many proudly proclaimed to me that their Honda Civic Hybrid or whatever else gets 35 MPG on the freeway during their commute. Well, that's nice, my 13 year old Altima gets 32 MPG on the freeway. They just don't grasp the technology and what its strengths and weaknesses are. You are correct, though, that the ones who are really into mileage will know that ICE engines on the right platforms can do very well. My father is one of them, actually, as he was set on a Prius (save the earth, blah blah blah), and then realized the Malibu was cheaper and even with a V6 got almost the same MPG on the freeway.
Since we're taking shots in the dark, MANY hybrid owners LOVE my car and are shocked at its mileage. One lady in particular wanted to sell her Prius and get a Solstice. Interestingly, some of these so-called "green" types are quite familiar with the car and don't group it (or other sports cars for that matter) in with the so-called wasteful other performance cars (muscle cars specifically).
The above might be true in your and my individual experience, but the solstice adds no new technology and has a conventional ICE and RWD, which is what I wanted. But, the media hype on hybrids and the idea of alternative fuels has led many conventional car owners to look at alternative powered vehicles. That is reality. How many Prius owners would buy a Solstice in trade on the Prius, I don't know. How many Prius owners would by a Sol as their 2nd or 3rd car, i don't know.
What I do know, the dealer gouging, the poor MY 1 and MY2 quality, the original hype all fueled the return to earth in a dramatic fashion, thus the now well below MSRP pricing on the Kappas.
__________________
Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
Since we're taking shots in the dark, MANY hybrid owners LOVE my car and are shocked at its mileage. One lady in particular wanted to sell her Prius and get a Solstice. Interestingly, some of these so-called "green" types are quite familiar with the car and don't group it (or other sports cars for that matter) in with the so-called wasteful other performance cars (muscle cars specifically).
The above might be true in your and my individual experience, but the solstice adds no new technology and has a conventional ICE and RWD, which is what I wanted. But, the media hype on hybrids and the idea of alternative fuels has led many conventional car owners to look at alternative powered vehicles. That is reality. How many Prius owners would buy a Solstice in trade on the Prius, I don't know. How many Prius owners would by a Sol as their 2nd or 3rd car, i don't know.
What I do know, the dealer gouging, the poor MY 1 and MY2 quality, the original hype all fueled the return to earth in a dramatic fashion, thus the now well below MSRP pricing on the Kappas.
__________________
Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
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