Next Solstice CANCELLED?

[SolsticeMan]

Originally Posted by rob the elder ...No manager would ever just say lets absorb a few tens of millions of dollars additional cost AS A MARKETING PLOY. LOLOLOLOL....

Two words:

Oprah
G6





$8M right there, on a single marketing ploy.

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by SolsticeMan Two words: Oprah G6 $8M right there, on a single marketing ploy.

That would be $8M on a failed project that Big "O" put up nothing for and in fact, many of her showgoers had to fork over big bucks to get into those G6s when they could not afford the taxes.

[Fformula88]

Originally Posted by StevieG That would be $8M on a failed project that Big "O" put up nothing for and in fact, many of her showgoers had to fork over big bucks to get into those G6s when they could not afford the taxes.

The G6... hahaha! What a marketing mess.

So, GM decides to call the car the G6 instead of the Grand Am. Never mind that the Grand Am was GM's second best selling car, with tons of brand recognition built up over years. That's ok. Instead, GM throws the name out, calls the new car the G6, spends millions in marketing including Oprah, and ends up with a car with not nearly as much brand recognition, and a car that because of the Oprah mess, gets labelled a "chick car."

As a result, GM is on pace to sell about 160,000 G6's this year, and that is up about 10% from last year, probably in part thanks to the shift back to cars and G6's I4 availability. Of course, it could be fleet sales too, as G6 seems to be a rental car favorite these days. In 1999, they sold 331,000 Grand Ams (last year I have reliable figures for).

Good job GM!

[JonzeOnSolstice]

No offense to you guys that like thousands of the same car on the road...however, I think it wouldn't be too bad if they stopped making the Sol. I got my first 1K three years ago and was very happy to be one of the only Sols on the road at the time. If they stop making the Sol it would eventually help drive resale values up and it would increase the collectability of the car. Remember less is more!!!!

[solsticeclampe]

I find it hard to beleive that GM lost money on our Solstices unless you count all the
failed differentials and replacements from not putting them back together correctly.
GM as well as most auto makers have been drowning with this economy and the cost of a gallon of gas. I refuse to let The Solstice take all the blame. It's the best looking car
they have released since the Corvette. I was just told this week that my Pontiac Dealer
is not selling JACK!!, except the Solstice and the G6 with the four cylinder and after next month, my dealer will be under new ownership as the current owner has several Chevrolet dealerships, a Kia dealership and multiple Bling Bling used car lots so he doesn't take the big hit at the auction houses when someone turns in a lease or
trades a relatively new car in.
I'm keeping mine regardless of which direction GM turns!

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by Fformula88 The G6... hahaha! What a marketing mess. So, GM decides to call the car the G6 instead of the Grand Am. Never mind that the Grand Am was GM's second best selling car, with tons of brand recognition built up over years. That's ok. Instead, GM throws the name out, calls the new car the G6, spends millions in marketing including Oprah, and ends up with a car with not nearly as much brand recognition, and a car that because of the Oprah mess, gets labelled a "chick car." As a result, GM is on pace to sell about 160,000 G6's this year, and that is up about 10% from last year, probably in part thanks to the shift back to cars and G6's I4 availability. Of course, it could be fleet sales too, as G6 seems to be a rental car favorite these days. In 1999, they sold 331,000 Grand Ams (last year I have reliable figures for). Good job GM!

At the time of Oprah's massive marketing hype of the G6 AND her philanthropy in helping others less fortunate but not so discerning, get the overhyped car, the "G6" moniker was considered a stupid alphanumeric exercise in marketing and had absolutely little credibility in the market place. "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING" I asked right then, abandoning an iconic name like Grand Am (and now Grand Prix and Bonneville, for G6 and G8--- Now a G5 too). Look at the great name cache Pontiac has---LeMans, Chieftain, Bonneville, Catalina, Firebird, TransAm, GTO, Fiero, Tempest, Ventura, even Sunbird and Sunfire. At the very least, they are names with a meaning. Now, even Solstice is a great name to me and I like it better than any name GM may have also considered for the car that I bought two of in less than a year. The G6 suffers from a generic marketing effort, the lack of the G6 GT and GXP variants at ramp up, and the fact that it s a FWD car competing against potent, iconic Japanese makes such as Camry, Accord, and Subaru Legacy/WRX models. Even the Mazda 6, which is the best car in that class to me by far. What GM suffers from is insanity in marketing strategies, combined with vehicles in their segments that are not class leading, save 3 or 4...the Corvette, the CTS, and the Solstice/Sky. Other than those, class leading in terms of quality, in terms of appeal, in terms of technology, in terms of resale value, in terms of style and content, are severely lacking to me. Again, this is but my opinion. GM has to over-engineer these vehicles over the competition, they have to offer real and perceived value over the competition, and they have to consider that today's consumer has more options than 30 -40 years ago. Look, at Lexus reallly really study Lexus and you'll see what I mean. They have, in less than 25 years of marketing existence, become the must respected luxury marque and offer real and perceived value, even above M-B, BMW and Audi--the German stalwarts. Studying Lexus really makes me wonder----why hasn't GM gotten it...

[Snugglebear]

Originally Posted by StevieG At the time of Oprah's massive marketing hype of the G6 AND her philanthropy in helping others less fortunate but not so discerning, get the overhyped car, the "G6" moniker was considered a stupid alphanumeric exercise in marketing and had absolutely little credibility in the market place. "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING" I asked right then, abandoning an iconic name like Grand Am (and now Grand Prix and Bonneville, for G6 and G8--- Now a G5 too). Look at the great name cache Pontiac has---LeMans, Chieftain, Bonneville, Catalina, Firebird, TransAm, GTO, Fiero, Tempest, Ventura, even Sunbird and Sunfire. At the very least, they are names with a meaning. Now, even Solstice is a great name to me and I like it better than any name GM may have also considered for the car that I bought two of in less than a year. The G6 suffers from a generic marketing effort, the lack of the G6 GT and GXP variants at ramp up, and the fact that it s a FWD car competing against potent, iconic Japanese makes such as Camry, Accord, and Subaru Legacy/WRX models. Even the Mazda 6, which is the best car in that class to me by far. What GM suffers from is insanity in marketing strategies, combined with vehicles in their segments that are not class leading, save 3 or 4...the Corvette, the CTS, and the Solstice/Sky. Other than those, class leading in terms of quality, in terms of appeal, in terms of technology, in terms of resale value, in terms of style and content, are severely lacking to me. Again, this is but my opinion. GM has to over-engineer these vehicles over the competition, they have to offer real and perceived value over the competition, and they have to consider that today's consumer has more options than 30 -40 years ago. Look, at Lexus reallly really study Lexus and you'll see what I mean. They have, in less than 25 years of marketing existence, become the must respected luxury marque and offer real and perceived value, even above M-B, BMW and Audi--the German stalwarts. Studying Lexus really makes me wonder----why hasn't GM gotten it...

The number scheme dates from when they were trying to focus attention on the brand over the vehicle. Apparently the foreign manufacturers had figured out that if you give a car a name consisting only of letters and numbers, it forces more people to use the brand name when discussing the car. Hence the BMW M3, or the Nissan Z350, or the Lexus ES. Words such as Firebird, Malibu, or Cobalt are used by themselves and are thus bastard children. I realize there's some sense to it, but they grabbed on and then went at it half-assed, so there are cars like the G6, G8, GTO, etc., out there, alongside the Solstice, Vibe, and the freshly neutered Volt. This just deepens the perception that they are far too bureaucratic and just cannot make up their minds to execute on a simple plan.

As for why they haven't gotten it, well, that's simple, really. They've been how big for how long? I'm sorry, but when you're that big you don't play the game well. It's too easy to lose focus at the top and they've done so quite rapidly. If you're hungry, focused, and play well, you win. If you're distracted and demoralized you don't.

[bigblau]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear As for why they haven't gotten it, well, that's simple, really. They've been how big for how long? I'm sorry, but when you're that big you don't play the game well. It's too easy to lose focus at the top and they've done so quite rapidly. If you're hungry, focused, and play well, you win. If you're distracted and demoralized you don't.

It’s like “Teaching the Elephant to Dance.” It’s very hard, but it can be done. You just have to have a lot of "Guts."

[Snugglebear]

Originally Posted by bigblau It’s like “Teaching the Elephant to Dance.” It’s very hard, but it can be done. You just have to have a lot of "Guts."

I certainly hope they have it in them. Especially with the unveiling of the neutered Volt today it's hard for me to imagine them changing with enough haste to prevent some sort of disaster. Large companies usually don't go out with a bang, they either slowly bleed out of cash, hack off pieces of themselves and become shadows of their former self, or get gobbled up. It's taken a long time to just get the few changes seen today, and most of the more substantial changes won't be for years to come. Meanwhile they're doing the Congressional beg-a-thon and mostly making painless changes. I really do wonder if they should have listened to Icahn and done a deal with Ghosin/Nissan. It would have been a complete jolt but sometimes a good kick in the pants does the trick.

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear I certainly hope they have it in them. Especially with the unveiling of the neutered Volt today it's hard for me to imagine them changing with enough haste to prevent some sort of disaster. Large companies usually don't go out with a bang, they either slowly bleed out of cash, hack off pieces of themselves and become shadows of their former self, or get gobbled up. It's taken a long time to just get the few changes seen today, and most of the more substantial changes won't be for years to come. Meanwhile they're doing the Congressional beg-a-thon and mostly making painless changes. I really do wonder if they should have listened to Icahn and done a deal with Ghosin/Nissan. It would have been a complete jolt but sometimes a good kick in the pants does the trick.

I agree with both of your posts. No focus. Too large and way too cumbersome in bureaucracy. Tangibly speaking, what is "guts". Please explain in a working understandable manner because I hear this word a lot....Brett Favre has large guts, or Tom Brady has large guts.

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by JeffInDFW I own a 1996 Viper GTS. In 2004, Dodge sent a letter to all the "first gen" Viper owners telling them that since Dodge had moved on to the second generation, they would no longer be producing many of the parts for the first generation cars. They actually suggested that "you should contact your local dealership parts department about stockpiling parts you think you will need for your Viper". Several years ago, they had already run out of a lot of parts you never think about. The little things like the removable rear windows....Certain wheel center caps....various interior trim pieces, etc. The good news with our Solstices is, our entire drivetrain is used in other GM vehicles. Our HVAC (air conditioner/heater controls) are from the Hummer H3, etc. The Solstice specific items will get in short supply many many years from now (my guess is like 15 years or so). GM has sold a lot of Kappas already. Dodge sells 1,500 Vipers per year.

I wouldn't be too worried about even those specific pieces though. It's so easy now for aftermarket companies to make replacement pieces.

Just take a look at the Fiero Store. There are soo many pieces that GM no longer produces, but the Fiero Store makes thousands of parts for Fieros. As long as you've got a solid frame, and most of the body panels, you can pretty much replace everything else.

Fierostore.com: The Fiero Store

I would expect a KappaStore or Solsticestore or something like that.

[BellaVerde]

Guts! If you wanna see guts, see GM pull off dropping all the unfunded mandates they gave the unions in years past(I'm not anti-union...normally, if GM agreed to it, they should do it). But the current GM, or Ford, or Chrysler cannot compete with the leaner and meaner companies. I do not want the taxpayers picking up GM's obligations either. So the painful, horrible conclusion is a bankruptcy and re-org that drops all the retirees into oblivion. There's guts. (Note: I am retired...)

[Snugglebear]

Originally Posted by BellaVerde Guts! If you wanna see guts, see GM pull off dropping all the unfunded mandates they gave the unions in years past(I'm not anti-union...normally, if GM agreed to it, they should do it). But the current GM, or Ford, or Chrysler cannot compete with the leaner and meaner companies. I do not want the taxpayers picking up GM's obligations either. So the painful, horrible conclusion is a bankruptcy and re-org that drops all the retirees into oblivion. There's guts. (Note: I am retired...)

The taxpayer wouldn't really be hit. The loans the companies are asking for are really the only major issues, and those are true loans, not just handouts. Granted I don't agree with it, but at least there's potential to get paid back, and, in the event of a BK, the government would get in line for their piece of the settlement. Also, the pensions and other obligations would be picked up by the PBGC, at least those that aren't being handled by the union. Those benefits would certainly be cut down in accordance with PBGC rules, though at least they'd get something. Unless there was a run of other companies foisting off benefits onto the PBGC, it remains funded by fees to industry and is in no need of direct Federal funding. Thus, as a whole, the taxpayer would not be on the hook should something go wrong, unless you want to include opportunity costs such as lost tax revenue, unemployment benefits, and any stupid ideas that Congressmen from impacted states come up.

As for guts... that's making a tough decision and sticking to it, regardless of outcome. GM has a bad history of making changes very slowly and only making ones that don't upset people. It's like they've been infected by political correctness, are being run by Jimmy Carter, or have decided that GM is just a jobs program and not a profit-seeking corporation working for their shareholders. Guts would be getting more from the union. Guts would be closing plants faster and telling the employees that you're not going to pay them for sitting idle after. Guts would be giving Wagoner some more time to spend with his family. Guts would be taking some risks in product development. Guts would be actually learning how to market cars. Guts would be trying to make those conquest sales, trying to actually sell to people who don't live in the Midwest and those who don't have a GM employee discount via their brother in law, retired grandparent, etc., and having the vehicles to do it. Guts would be cutting middle management. Guts would be reinvesting the savings into products. Guts would be restructuring the company so either GM becomes a holding company for independent brands or integrating everything around the globe. Guts would be changing the culture from a place you work for 30 years to a place you want to work because you want to succeed.

[BellaVerde]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear The taxpayer wouldn't really be hit. The loans the companies are asking for are really the only major issues, and those are true loans, not just handouts. Granted I don't agree with it, but at least there's potential to get paid back, and, in the event of a BK, the government would get in line for their piece of the settlement. Also, the pensions and other obligations would be picked up by the PBGC, at least those that aren't being handled by the union. Those benefits would certainly be cut down in accordance with PBGC rules, though at least they'd get something. Unless there was a run of other companies foisting off benefits onto the PBGC, it remains funded by fees to industry and is in no need of direct Federal funding. Thus, as a whole, the taxpayer would not be on the hook should something go wrong, unless you want to include opportunity costs such as lost tax revenue, unemployment benefits, and any stupid ideas that Congressmen from impacted states come up. As for guts... that's making a tough decision and sticking to it, regardless of outcome. GM has a bad history of making changes very slowly and only making ones that don't upset people. It's like they've been infected by political correctness, are being run by Jimmy Carter, or have decided that GM is just a jobs program and not a profit-seeking corporation working for their shareholders. Guts would be getting more from the union. Guts would be closing plants faster and telling the employees that you're not going to pay them for sitting idle after. Guts would be giving Wagoner some more time to spend with his family. Guts would be taking some risks in product development. Guts would be actually learning how to market cars. Guts would be trying to make those conquest sales, trying to actually sell to people who don't live in the Midwest and those who don't have a GM employee discount via their brother in law, retired grandparent, etc., and having the vehicles to do it. Guts would be cutting middle management. Guts would be reinvesting the savings into products. Guts would be restructuring the company so either GM becomes a holding company for independent brands or integrating everything around the globe. Guts would be changing the culture from a place you work for 30 years to a place you want to work because you want to succeed.

Yep.That is the idea. It would suck to be a current GM retiree, but would be great to be a NEWGM employee.