It may be unwise to combine the Kappa and Corvette platforms, but the bean counters are the ones that write the checks.
I don't see why it is so inconceivable for a Corvette to have a 300HP V6 -it gets 26mpg in the 3,700 pound 2010 Camaro. After all, wasn't the first C1 a six cylinder -straight 6 at that? I'd buy a affordable Corvette any day.
I think we can all thank the UAW that the Kappa will be built until at least 2012, because that's when their contract runs out. If not for the contract I think GM would pull the plug a lot sooner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fformula88
Corvette and Kappa would not be converging on the same platform. I think the intent of the move was to maximize their overhead investment. One plant and workforce is cheaper than two, and they must feel they can build adequate volumes of both vehicles under one roof. However, with GM's finances the way they are now and the cost to move an assembly line, I would not bet the house that the kappas end up moving. If it is moved, they may just move the tooling and be making the same basic vehicle too.
Also... no plans for a V6 Corvette at this stage. GM doesn't need it anyway. If they sell enough Cruze's and Volts and other efficient vehicles, a relatively low volume Corvette won't kill their CAFE figures. Especially if they can get it's mileage up with the V8. With multi displacement technology, possibly future direct injection, or other advances (flex compression ignition/spark ignition gasoline technology which GM is working on) etc. Anyway, the Vette is low enough volume to not need to hit the cafe figure, and I doubt GM would dilute that brand name with a V6. It would be like the Cadillac Cimeron of Corvettes.
Without spilling the beans I mentioned that we might not see the new Sol / Sky in time - wish I remember the thread.. just posted this a few days prior to the news article - for the planned move.
Yes, the platform looses money. The advertising *was* great.. and the car justified itself for that media attention. A redesign / new platform would *not* pull the same advertising / media attention and thus... could not pay for the loss the car endures at sale time and time again. No way around that.
Lots of programs have been shelved / delayed / what ever term you want to use. Most SUV's, all other ZETA vehicles (outside of the Camaro) and those are just the ones I *know* are public and written about. I don't read all of the press / magazine sites because I get most of my information from GM folks / suppliers and have no need.. but I know of some other very high profile projects that have been shelved in the last two weeks.
GM needs positive cash flow, and needs to meet CAFE standards. Any vehicle which does not meet these two requirements... and yes I mean *ANY* vehicle (think iconic / halo performance cars in the lower brand structures) which does not meet these requirements is being either canceled, or held off for changes. Changes cost money... plain and simple.
My guess is you'll see less and less refreshes to vehicles (extending the time frame) and more and more engine options driving towards CAFE rule requirements. That's the cheapest path to meet those two goals.. and seems to fit the projects which are both still active, and those which have been shelved for now.
Wish I could say more... but DI V6 in a Kappa.. no. DI V6 in a 'Vette.. no. Kappa II.. no. Alpha platform.. delayed. The Sol / Sky is on tract to miss at least a model year after Wilmington stops production.
Quite frankly, the Miata is a simple car. It's basically an econo car with RWD. Can't get much simpler than that.
No, it's how a Miata is built and distributed. Worldwide sales keep up enough demand to make it profitable.
It's built on a multi-model flex line so as demand fluctuates it easy to keep the line going at a profitable level by simply building more of other model cars.
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Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe. -- Frank Zappa
I have to agree 100% with everything FF88 has said so far. I just want to add Kappa cars are not always money losers in profit terms. There is a break even point where they do make GM profit if optioned to a certain point. A bone stock base car and I'm betting Z0K cars will loose the most, a completely optioned GXP/Classic will make the most profit.
Hopefully the Solstice can ride out the impending GM doom, even if it gets no updates for a couple years. Otherwise the only other option is death. I personally have no desire to see this car die. GM will get a stern talking to and an eternally disgruntled customer if they do kill it.
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I'll go a little further...
I had early picts of the coupe...I have "Friends". Well said friends at that point said THey had no news on the conversion to new platform and if they were gonna do that it should be in R&D...MomsSol can back up my assertions I made that it would not make the move.
It's possible it's losing some money but I'd have to think it's in the neighborhood of break even given the platform was designed to make money even at low volumes. Maybe some things have changed since that business case was hatched back in 2002 or maybe some number crunchers are skewing things who knows. I have to imagine that a semi-loaded car makes some money but that's just my guess.
My personal message to GM is keep the platform rolling. Things will look brighter a few years down the road and then you can re-evaluate the situation on any 2nd generation. It's a halo car for your brand with a large enthusiast following.
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Now, for fear we turn this into another long V6 in a kappa thread, lets try to remain focused on the more immediate future of the kappa, and whether it will see it's way to a second generation in order to have a shot at more engine choices.
I will. but our V-6 demagogue can't. He still wants a V-6 in a Corvette or a Kappa, which as you note is off-thread.
"It may be unwise to combine the Kappa and Corvette platforms, but the bean counters are the ones that write the checks.
I don't see why it is so inconceivable for a Corvette to have a 300HP V6 -it gets 26mpg in the 3,700 pound 2010 Camaro. After all, wasn't the first C1 a six cylinder -straight 6 at that? I'd buy a affordable Corvette any day." That is BigBlau.
I follow brentil here who states also that what you say is 100% correct. I agree there too, and I have some insider knowledge of the kappa program and the idea behind it. The Vette will never have a V-6 and neither will the kappa. But, the warranty costs, with mine alone costing GM over $4K says a lot. I think we agree there also.
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Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
Miata: They sell large volumes in a world wide market. They probably make a lot of money on cars sold in Europe, due to favorable exchange rates between Europe and Japan, and the fact people in Europe will pay a higher price for a smaller, lower powered car than they will in the US.
DIV6: Forgetaboutit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNewSolstice
I'll go a little further...
I had early picts of the coupe...I have "Friends". Well said friends at that point said THey had no news on the conversion to new platform and if they were gonna do that it should be in R&D...MomsSol can back up my assertions I made that it would not make the move.
IMO (based on what I have heard) the much publicized "move" to a new platform was never a done deal. it had it's supporters and detractors, and final decisions were never made. Now it is a moot point anyway.
Also, if we pay attention to what is said, we don't necessarily need Moms to always pop in and say "my contacts" either. There is plenty of accurate info on this forum from a variety of sources... We certainly thank her for doing so, and hope her sources stay out of trouble, but she is not necessarily the only source either. (I know, people are skeptical of internet info... but thats just how it goes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhammon
GM needs positive cash flow, and needs to meet CAFE standards. Any vehicle which does not meet these two requirements... and yes I mean *ANY* vehicle (think iconic / halo performance cars in the lower brand structures) which does not meet these requirements is being either canceled, or held off for changes. Changes cost money... plain and simple.
I definately agree with this. I think people would be astounded at some what has been considered (and could happen).
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Also, if we pay attention to what is said, we don't necessarily need Moms to always pop in and say "my contacts" either. There is plenty of accurate info on this forum from a variety of sources... We certainly thank her for doing so, and hope her sources stay out of trouble, but she is not necessarily the only source either. (I know, people are skeptical of internet info... but thats just how it goes).
FF
It was to confirm the conversation where I made the statement about 3 months ago not to confirm the actual info...I am ok with it as is
Also, if we pay attention to what is said, we don't necessarily need Moms to always pop in and say "my contacts" either. There is plenty of accurate info on this forum from a variety of sources... We certainly thank her for doing so, and hope her sources stay out of trouble, but she is not necessarily the only source either. (I know, people are skeptical of internet info... but thats just how it goes).
Ain't that the truth!!! And none of us want to abuse or put any of our sources in jeopardy. With information I get receive from mine I always ask what, if any, I am allowed to share. And there has been info I have had to keep to myself for MONTHS!!
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I posted on here news of this like 3 or 4 months ago. I'm sure others have too. I had lunch with a couple engineers, and GM employees in the food court of the ren cen most of which are people I know, parents of close friends etc. They were hinting this news to me.
I had posted on here that according to them there were no further plans for the next Kappas that were supposed to come out in 2011-2012. They were also saying it was due to the fact that they just aren't making any money.
It's truly sad too. Especially if they are making the Coupe next year. Well hopefully GM does keep them around, but if they don't hold on to yours everyone. I'm sure these will be collector cars in the next 20-30 years...
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GM is fighting for survial. If they have to get rid of Kappa (II) or other current/future platforms in order to get to profitability, I'm in favor of it.
The USA cannot withstand GM going under. I think Ford is worse off, but I've heard differently.
Once GM is profitable, maybe they can address new platforms in the future.
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I'd buy a affordable Corvette any day.
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