Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajesse
My concern with OnStar is activation during performance driving events.
On that note, GM recently came out with an updated SDM Operating System software for the 2007 Full Size Utilties for the condition of "During certain extreme vehicle maneuvers, the vehicle SDM may mistakenly detect a crash event and generate a call to the OnStar® call Center. The OnStar® advisor is connected to the vehicle to see if everyone is alright and if a request for emergency help is needed".
Maybe other carlines will be following.
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I rant at every onstar post I come across. So, here I go. I feel it's my insignificant power as a consumer, so I'll use it.
I am currently taking a look at new cars again. If GM can't offer me a car without Onstar, I'll have to make a different choice for a personal vehicle. When I was looking for my 07 Solstice, I scratched all the available GXPs that had Onstar off the list. I am frustrated that all my prefered vehicles come with standard Onstar. At least they do here in Canada. I have put up with packaged features all this time, accepting options that I don't want so that I can have the ones I do. I draw the line at onstar.
Does anyone realize the business of databases is extremely lucrative. My free XM trial, I never used or even asked to have registered has apparently opened the flood gates to my phone. I have been called at least ten times. At least the last fellow spoke clearly and was polite. I am growing tired of saying NO!!!!
It doesn't take any manpower to keep data. Memory is cheap and a pretty simple computer can handle the load of a few numbers. Coming from an area where they used cameras to ticket your car for anything over the limit, I don't see it as much of a stretch to think that they would want access to my car's data. It was challenged in court, so it's no longer used, but it took some pissed off rich guy to make it happen. But laws change right. Especially in the name of safety. When you think about it, our really high fuel taxes might give relevance to the argument that I already pay extra taxes to speed.
I wonder why the American governement was planning a required wireless connection for OBD3?
I love the conspiracy nut coments thrown out on topics like this. Maybe I did watch the movie 1984. Maybe some should watch it. If the Demoition Man cenario come to be, I'm &#^%ed. hehe. In any case, we are paying for a service that we don't need. Just like the British with billions spent on cameras with no increase in "safety", we all seem to buy into something if it's labeled safer.
Onstar must be making money hand over fist as it comes standard in so many cars. While GM loses money and begs for help, other divisions/companies are doing reasonably well. A great scheme for sure. Onstar seems to cost 400+ depending on the car. You can get a pretty decent GPS for that, albiet not from GM.
I have heard of a dealer responding to a customers request to remove Onstar. I have not spoken to the tech so far, but will be discussing what was done in the future. I am concerned because of Onstar's BS safety label. Would removing a "safety feature" be a liability if a wreck did hapen?
It's likely that they could tell if a pcm was changed with a little investigation. I would look for the maximum RPM. It's a dead giveaway. I have searched the Onstar site to find specifics as to what it's real capabilities are. Other than a typical sales pitch and privacy policy, there is little more than fluff info available to the public. I am impatiently waiting for the GM tune. If I had any exposure to the tunes available, I might reconsider as my car is feeling slow to me. I would likely forget about warranty if something went bad with a tune and look forward to some of the power options available.
What might shut me up about Onstar would be the ability for me to access the data. I would love a wireless engine info/alarm/GPS/integrated electrical control system.... I'd pay another 4 bills to have a little Palm computer configured with my car and the ability to switch the antenae off with a hardware switch. Throw in a remote car camera and I'd probably be sharing videos of my latest Sunday drive on Youtube.
A tiny bit of research will tell you that wireless products are a joke concerning security. A couple minutes on the net will show examples of some fun. Ease dropping on unsuspecting Bluetooth headset users. Command of public address systems with wireless smartphone cameras. The sky is the limit when it comes to software and creativity and wireless tech.
Regretably, I have had to sell some crap in my days. I'm thankful I don't have to look in to a customers eyes and build value on this product. Even though I know their eyes will gloss over if I mention that it's for safety. It's really too bad, because it has the parts to make it a really cool toy. They just took all the fun out of it and MADE IT SAFE.
I rant at every onstar post I come across. So, here I go. I feel it's my insignificant power as a consumer, so I'll use it.
I am currently taking a look at new cars again. If GM can't offer me a car without Onstar, I'll have to make a different choice for a personal vehicle. When I was looking for my 07 Solstice, I scratched all the available GXPs that had Onstar off the list. I am frustrated that all my prefered vehicles come with standard Onstar. At least they do here in Canada. I have put up with packaged features all this time, accepting options that I don't want so that I can have the ones I do. I draw the line at onstar.
Does anyone realize the business of databases is extremely lucrative. My free XM trial, I never used or even asked to have registered has apparently opened the flood gates to my phone. I have been called at least ten times. At least the last fellow spoke clearly and was polite. I am growing tired of saying NO!!!!
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. If I can't get a car without OnStar from GM, I'm not buying again.
As it is, I get at least monthly calls to sign up for both OnStar and XM ON MY CELLULAR PHONE. I keep telling them (politely) to stop calling as they have reached a wireless number and it doesn't seem to help.
I have no intention to pay a monthly service fee for any component on my vehicle. It's not a "feature" if I have to keep paying for it to work. With OnStar and XM required "options" on these cars, GM is attempting to turn a one-time transaction into an ongoing revenue stream, and I don't want to participate or have it shoved down my throat.
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Dealer
Updated information contained in quote
OnStar Stolen Vehicle Slowdown (where available on certain 2009 OnStar equipped GM vehicles) first requires an owner to acknowledge it's presence and accept the service.
Then if the vehicle is stolen, to report the vehicle stolen to the police and file a stolen vehicle report.
Finally the owner must then call OnStar and request Stolen Vehicle Tracking.
When law enforcement has a clear line of sight and indicates to OnStar that it is safe to slow the vehicle down, OnStar will then send a signal to activate Stolen Vehicle Slowdown.
The stolen vehicle will automatically slow down to an idel speed, helping authorities recover the stolen vehicle.
Stolen Vehicle Slowdown will be released in late 2008 on select 2009 models.
The 2009 model year availability list doesn't include the Solstice (or Sky or any Pontiac models).
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I also agree with the original poster and a couple oof others in this thread.
My Club Sport has no ONSTAR, in fact I was given $200 "delete" credit on the window sticker.
Regarding the SDM, (which I believe has nothing at all to do with the on-star system, except to let it "know" there was a crash) most things touted as a "benefit" have a habit of going awry, and IMHO better to avoid the problem altogether. Read page 7-18 in your (2008) owners manual.
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" Leave the gun..... take the cannolis. "
I too ordered my 2007 GXP without On-star and XM. I don't want "options" that I'm not going to use. I strongly object to paying for them and worse yet continuing to pay for service. Looks like I won't be upgrading my Solstice any time soon.
This is my first GM purchase since 1979. I'm hoping it's not my last.
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rag top
I too ordered my 2007 GXP without On-star and XM. I don't want "options" that I'm not going to use. I strongly object to paying for them and worse yet continuing to pay for service. Looks like I won't be upgrading my Solstice any time soon.
This is my first GM purchase since 1979. I'm hoping it's not my last.
You will be happy to know that in the future OnStar and XM will no longer be options. They have been added to the list of standard equipment.
Even when they were optional, an owner was not required to have to "continue to pay for service". They could elect not to subscribe to XM when the 3 month free trial ended or not to subscribe to OnStar after the first year of service ended (either included in the cost of the option or as part of the standard equipment).
It would be a shame for GM to loose you as an owner just as they are becoming the first manufacturer to make a committment to their owner's safety before-during-after an accident, by making features such as StabiliTrak and OnStar standard equipment.
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Any GM Solstice Service Manual and Service Bulletin information found here on site, or Sales and Product information should be thought of as correct and accurate as of the date posted. After that any information or procedure should be confirmed as still correct with your dealership.
Last edited by Small Dealer : 07-25-2008 at 12:52 PM.
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebad
Read page 7-18 in your (2008) owners manual.
For those without their Owner's Manual at their side, here is page 7-18.
Quote:
Event Data Recorders
This vehicle has an Event Data Recorder (EDR). The main purpose of an EDR is to record, in certain crash or near crash-like situations, such as an airbag deployment or hitting a road obstacle, data that will assist in understanding how a vehicle's systems performed. The EDR is designed to record data related to vehicle dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less. The EDR in this vehicle is designed to record such data as:
• How various systems in your vehicle were operating
• Whether or not the driver and passenger safety belts were buckled/fastened
• How far, if at all, the driver was pressing the accelerator and/or brake pedal
• How fast the vehicle was traveling
This data can help provide a better understanding of the circumstances in which crashes and injuries occur.
Important: EDR data is recorded by your vehicle only if a non-trivial crash situation occurs; no data is recorded by the EDR under normal driving conditions and no personal data (e.g., name, gender, age, and crash location) is recorded. However, other parties, such as law enforcement, could combine the EDR data with the type of personally identifying data routinely acquired during a crash investigation.
To read data recorded by an EDR, special equipment is required, and access to the vehicle or the EDR is needed. In addition to the vehicle manufacturer, other parties, such as law enforcement, that have the special equipment, can read the information if they have access to the vehicle or the EDR.
GM will not access this data or share it with others except: with the consent of the vehicle owner or, if the vehicle is leased, with the consent of the lessee; in response to an official request of police or similar government office; as part of GM's defense of litigation through the discovery process; or, as required by law. Data that GM collects or receives may also be used for GM research needs or may be made available to others for research purposes, where a need is shown and the data is not tied to a specific vehicle or vehicle owner.
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Any GM Solstice Service Manual and Service Bulletin information found here on site, or Sales and Product information should be thought of as correct and accurate as of the date posted. After that any information or procedure should be confirmed as still correct with your dealership.
You will be happy to know that in the future OnStar and XM will no longer be options. They have been added to the list of standard equipment.
It would be a shame for GM to loose you as an owner just as they are becoming the first manufacturer to make a committment to their owner's safety before-during-after an accident, by making features such as StabiliTrak and OnStar standard equipment.
StabiliTrak is a saftey feature (and not one I'm interested in unless it has a defeat button.)
OnStar is an inferior implementation of features available through inexpensive devices that require no service fee. It reduces my saftey by interrupting enjoyable driving with operatiors asking if I have been in a collision.
In car calling? Bluetooth headset. $50
Directions? GPS unit. $200
Diagnostic services? OBD2 reader. $70
And all those things can be moved and work with my other cars. If I had 4 cars with OnStar, I'd theoretically be paying for service on four cars, rather than moving a GPS or bluetooth headset around as I need it.
Collision detection? Not interested.
Sending mileage info to my insurance company? Not interested. (If you sign up for that do they also send the collision data to GMAC Insurance? Even worse!)
XM? XM is crap. The car stereo plays burned MP3 CDs. There is an audio in port for a music player on the front of it. Both of those options don't require an ugly antenna on the back of my car, and LET ME FAST FORWARD AND SKIP TRACKS. If I'm going to be at the mercy of a program director, I'll be at the mercy of one FOR FREE on terrestrial radio. More likely, though, I'll bring my own music and have an even better time.
I love how everyone is willing to give up all their rights. Anyone who fully understands how important it is to fight for and exercise your rights is considered a nut or sorts.
Facts are this
You can be monitored thru onstar
You can be monitored thru your cell phone
They just made it illegal for cable companies to install cameras into cable boxes to do direct marketing-Scientific Atlanta has already built these
CIA monitors all internet activity and phone calls. Not some ALL. By there own admission.
So is someone wants to somehow make a stand I say good for them and it's a shame that others feel they need to ridicule them and even use words like conspiracy.
I have also never heard of any so called conspiracy person saying that the government is incompetent. On the contrary they know exactly what they are doing and doing it well. I would suggest reading something for a change and maybe you will get a clue how it works.
RANT OFF...
PS anyone bothered that Obama would support the FISA bill and continualy vote in line with CFR guidlines and beleifs? So much for being a instrument of change.
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I love the life but I never sold my soul...
I just don't see why the government would conspire with GM for consumer tracking/profiling and leave the other car makers behind.
My Ford Focus for example has no type of remote communication going on so I would just wonder why GM would be chosen.
I could see why someone wouldn't want to get opted in mailing/calling lists for new services related to their purchase, but that pretty much the norm these days.
If I was REALLY worried I would buy a Daewoo, because I would know all my personal data would go to scenic South Korea. : P
I've written this and erased it several times trying to make my message clear. So here's the short version.
GM forces you to buy options (now standard equipment) that I and others don't want.
They aren't free, the base price of the car increases to cover the equipment.
They have annual fees associated with their maintenance. (I understand that paying for the service is optional.)
It's a marketing ploy to increase the cost of the car and with the potential to continue to charge for services.
So where is the benefit to me as a consumer? I only see benefits to GM.
I don't mind paying for options I want, but I strong object to paying for those I don't.
