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Old 07-24-2008, 07:03 PM   #31 (permalink)
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RANT ON!!!

I love how everyone is willing to give up all their rights. Anyone who fully understands how important it is to fight for and exercise your rights is considered a nut or sorts.

Facts are this
You can be monitored thru onstar
You can be monitored thru your cell phone
They just made it illegal for cable companies to install cameras into cable boxes to do direct marketing-Scientific Atlanta has already built these
CIA monitors all internet activity and phone calls. Not some ALL. By there own admission.


So is someone wants to somehow make a stand I say good for them and it's a shame that others feel they need to ridicule them and even use words like conspiracy.


I have also never heard of any so called conspiracy person saying that the government is incompetent. On the contrary they know exactly what they are doing and doing it well. I would suggest reading something for a change and maybe you will get a clue how it works.


RANT OFF...


PS anyone bothered that Obama would support the FISA bill and continualy vote in line with CFR guidlines and beleifs? So much for being a instrument of change.
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Old 07-24-2008, 11:34 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I just don't see why the government would conspire with GM for consumer tracking/profiling and leave the other car makers behind.

My Ford Focus for example has no type of remote communication going on so I would just wonder why GM would be chosen.

I could see why someone wouldn't want to get opted in mailing/calling lists for new services related to their purchase, but that pretty much the norm these days.

If I was REALLY worried I would buy a Daewoo, because I would know all my personal data would go to scenic South Korea. : P
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Old 07-24-2008, 11:40 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Hi Small Dealer

I've written this and erased it several times trying to make my message clear. So here's the short version.

GM forces you to buy options (now standard equipment) that I and others don't want.
They aren't free, the base price of the car increases to cover the equipment.
They have annual fees associated with their maintenance. (I understand that paying for the service is optional.)

It's a marketing ploy to increase the cost of the car and with the potential to continue to charge for services.

So where is the benefit to me as a consumer? I only see benefits to GM.

I don't mind paying for options I want, but I strong object to paying for those I don't.
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:21 AM   #34 (permalink)
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GM forces you to buy options (now standard equipment) that I and others don't want.
GM doesn't force anyone to do or buy anything. They build the best cars they can, the way they think they should and hope that they find market acceptance.

If anything the market has forced GM to go this route, making OnStar standard.

GM had a product differentiator. A system that would show their technical expertice. One that no other manufacturer offers (although several are working on their own systems to debut in the next few years). A product with a measurable increase in customer satisfaction with the whole car and ownership experience, that ranked high in repurchase intent, and has high ratings in word of mouth recommendation.

If the market refussed to look at GM products, then GM would give them more to look at.

They declared that in the interests of owner safety that they would make OnStar and StabiliTrak standard equipment. They increased the warranty package to be better than most other manufacturers.

They made OnStar part of a GM product's DNA.

If a buyer can't find enough to like about a GM product to outweigh lack of interest in one of the standard features, well that is too bad. But that is each individual's choice.

If someone doesn't buy a Vibe becuase they do not like the visablility out the decorative quarter window, it is the same thing.


Quote:
They aren't free, the base price of the car increases to cover the equipment.
The 2008 Pontiac Solstice 2.4L start of production base price was $22,295. The 2007 Pontiac Solstice base price at the end of the production year was $22,115. Only a $180 difference for the new model year.

Additional standard equipment on the 2008 2.4L was Tire Pressure Monitoring System, Premium Accoustic Headliner ($150 in 2007), OnStar ($695), Driver's Information Center ($100), XM Radio ($199), and MP3 capatible US8 Radio ($195).

So the price difference between years, was less than the MSRP for just the radio.


Quote:
They have annual fees associated with their maintenance. (I understand that paying for the service is optional.)
Yes. Annual fees that haven't changed, or have been lowered (when service was added) since the introduction of the factory installed system

Quote:
It's a marketing ploy to increase the cost of the car and with the potential to continue to charge for services.
Yes it is an attempt to market the car, that is what GM does, it markets it's cars.

It doesn't increase the cost of the car.

While there is the potential to charge for service, GM doesn't appear to make that a priority by the way they have handled the pricing.


Quote:
So where is the benefit to me as a consumer? I only see benefits to GM.
In the first 10 years of OnStar service (through July 2007), and as the customer base was building, OnStar had nearly 100 million customer interactions, including:

20 million calls for directions.

1.3 million roadside assistance requests.

2.4 million doors unlocked.

31 million diagnostic emails sent.

700 thousand emergencies handled.

28 thousand stolen vehicles located.

66 thousand automatic crash responses.

Over 1 billion hands free calling minutes sold.

Not sure the only benefits are to GM.


Quote:
I don't mind paying for options I want, but I strong object to paying for those I don't.
If a buyer can't find enough to like about a GM product to outweigh lack of interest in one of the standard features, well that is too bad.



Thank you for the opportunity to discuss these issues.
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Last edited by Small Dealer; 07-25-2008 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Spelling/Typing
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:30 AM   #35 (permalink)
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The event recorder is a bigger issue to me than OnStar.
It's not right that authorities could use my car against me in the case of an accident.
And I don't think it's easy to disable the event recorder. It's part of the airbag module.

And then even if you could, would you be arrested for tampering with it if they couldn't get data off of it after an accident?

It's not right. I don't want that recorder nor do I want OnStar tracking me.
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Old 07-25-2008, 12:20 PM   #36 (permalink)
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When the sol came out in 2006, one of the things I liked was ordering a striped down model If you wanted too. Now Air and power windows, radio, and on-star is standard?...way to screw up my right to chose....next they will require a gps attachment for my weapons so they can find them....(it isn't registration its for safety if you miss place your Glock we can help you find it.). ..seal9
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by seal9
When the sol came out in 2006, one of the things I liked was ordering a striped down model If you wanted too. Now Air and power windows, radio, and on-star is standard?...way to xxxxx up my right to chose.
Air Conditioning and Power Windows (Preferred Package) are still optional.

AM/FM Stereo w/CD was standard in 2006-2007, now the upgraded AM/FM Stereo w/CD and MP3 playback is standard.

Before the Solstice introductory pricing and ordering information was released, GM had already announced that OnStar would become standard equipment.
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Last edited by Small Dealer; 07-26-2008 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:40 PM   #38 (permalink)
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did this guy steal the Sol or what? Why should he care unless he stole it?
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:55 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I bet there aren't a bunch of conspiracy theories being discussed on forums for soccer-mom mini-van owners, who probably appreciate the hell out of some of the On* safety features and totally trust GM/the government/the establishment, to take care of them before, during, and after an accident. They know they aren't law breakers or terrorists, and won't be, so they aren't concerned. Is it not GM's right to make a buck off the market for these services, as it is yours to not want them.? If you don't like it, you don't have to buy their product, and you can buy old/other brand or simply build your own from scratch.

Owning a car (of any kind) is not a right, it is a privilege (one that a whole lot of people in this world can only dream of).

I'm going to tune my car, modify the hell out of it, and use the extra power to have a little fun, within safe limits, not run from the police or the black helicopters, because I know that when the government gets to the point where it has nothing better to do than screw with little old me and my quick car, then the end is very near anyway.
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:30 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Rag top : Hi Small Dealer

I've written this and erased it several times trying to make my message clear. So here's the short version.

GM forces you to buy options (now standard equipment) that I and others don't want.
They aren't free, the base price of the car increases to cover the equipment.
They have annual fees associated with their maintenance. (I understand that paying for the service is optional.)

It's a marketing ploy to increase the cost of the car and with the potential to continue to charge for services.

So where is the benefit to me as a consumer? I only see benefits to GM.

I don't mind paying for options I want, but I strong object to paying for those I don't.
It is entirely possible that the price of the base car would go up more if the options were still optional.

Providing options has costs to the manufacturer beyond the incremental cost of the hardware. For some of them the hardware costs far outweigh these additional costs so this theory does not apply, but for others the costs are much closer. When it becomes more likely that a car will have one of these latter options rather than not, it becomes a cost savings to include it as standard.

The additional costs include supporting multiple supply lines for the different components and for multiple wiring harnesses, as well as the loss of economy of scale when component manufacture has to be split among multiple varieties. Training for the assembly line personnel and the additional quality control needed to ensure that the correct components are used are also cost factors.
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Old 07-28-2008, 12:50 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I'm sorry I'm about to rant on this whole thing, it's nothing personal, but a lot of this conspiracy theorist govt. tracking me bull**** has gotten way to out of hand on the internet lately. This whole giving up rights for security thing is a great argument, when you're actually f*cking giving something up. People are freaking the hell out that their ISP's are tracking them pirating stuff and sending them letters not to. You're STEALING someone's work. If you built cars, and people stole them out of the driveway, wouldn't you want the police to help you?

Some of the people in this thread are taking their fear waaayyy to far. Seriously, it's a service, if you don't like it, turn it off, tell them to not call you again, and if they do ask to speak to a supervisor and be placed on a do not call list.

As was stated before me, it would cost MORE money if it wasn't included in basic package, they have to manufacture multiple mirrors, multiple panels (where the mic is), radios, wiring harnesses, etc. They're not making it mandatory to have it because the customer wants it, they're making it mandatory so they can bring YOU the car YOU WANT, CHEAPER.

If you hate OnStar so much, go buy a different car, I'm sure someone will be happy to take it off your hands.

I mean ****, did you know you're on the INTERNET, a series of tubes where your ISP can track your EVERY move!?

On the event recorder - I bet you'd like it to be there if the car malfunctions and causes you to wreck. Everything like that is a two-edged sword. People complain that it's there and proved that they're an idiot, then when it's not available they complain that they have no evidence it's not their fault. Don't do something STUPID and cause a wreck and the event recorder won't cause you problems.

All that being said, there are places where the govt. has taken it to far. This just happens to NOT be one of those cases.

Last edited by fr0stb1t3; 07-28-2008 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:37 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I traded in my '07 for an '08 mostly to get OnStar. I have only had to use it once, though I had it on 5 of the last 6 vehicles I have owned. But that one time I needed it, sold me on OnStar, for the basic "safe and sound" package.

Nobody can legally monitor you using OnStar! There was ONE case where the Feds went to court to force OnStar to allow them to "listen in" to conversations held inside an alleged mobster's car. The Supreme Court later ruled that's not legal because it interferes with the emergency contact service, which a subscriber pays for.

If you don't want OnStar activated in your vehicle, you can call them and say so. Then it transmits NOTHING to anyone. The transmitter is just a wireless cellular phone, nothing more.

If you don't want calls from telemarketers etc on your cell phone, you can register it on the national Do Not Call list, just like a landline. The telemarketers try to claim that you gave them permission by using their service once, but all it takes is saying "no, I do not want you to call" and they will stop, in my experience.

I am a lot more upset about the Photo Radar scam being perpetrated in my state, Arizona. The taxpayers had no opportunity to vote yes or no, and a private company from Australia operates the cameras. Redflex gets a bounty (fee) of about $70 for every ticket issued. Plus, what else are they photographing, what else is the government recording? Seat belt usage, smoking in cars, cell phone use, picking your nose? I read where Redflex is offering to put license plates into tracking databases so that they can compute speed from elapsed time, plus other "services". The whole thing is a scam to collect randomly applied road use taxes on drivers!

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Old 12-23-2008, 07:41 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Holy cow, they can do that?
All this "Big brother is watching" stuff is really freaking me out.
I just went out and lined the inside of the top with aluminum foil.
Tomorrow I'm repainting my car 'cause of the black copters!
Asphalt with a double yellow stripe from the drivers side headlight to the tail light.
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:22 PM   #44 (permalink)
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The nice thing about the solstice it's a convertible, so can you imagine the look on the black copter pilots face when you put a rocket launcher on your shoulder and take the copter out while your cruisin at 80mph with the radio blasting. Don't worry so much I think we all watch to much tv!!! I like my onstar, I just wish it was cheaper in price for the subscription..
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #45 (permalink)
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On Star in the car was a mandatory for me. That was what I was looking for. I like the Idea that if I am in a wreck and the air bags deploy and I cant answer On Star. That they will send me help. As far as XM Radio, It sucks and I told them so when the Trial offer was up. They came down to $4.99 per month and told them again that it was not worth anything to me. I try and drive in a responsible manner,so I am not worried about them being able to record what I was doing just before an accident. An sure as hell want the police to be able to find my car if some dirt bag steals it. Will I pay the fee after the one year free offer runs out? I have to wait and see how much they want. If it's reasonable, probably so, if not, then no.
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