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waterpump woes

93K views 276 replies 100 participants last post by  SolCal 
#1 ·
about 3 weeks ago i noticed my coolant was low, not much but enough to set off the warning light. i replaced the fluid (about a half inch in reservoir 3 times in the last 3 weeks). i noticed a small drip mark towards the right rear of engine and brought it in...waterpump was going. repair bill was $379. my mileage was 41k. price wasnt as bad as i feared.
 
#2 ·
Going to hijack for a public service announcement.

Water Pump replacement is something that an owner has to be careful of. They should make sure the shop or dealership doing the repair knows the proper procedures and will use the proper tools.

In rare instances the balance shaft tensioner will ratchet out during service if the water pump is replaced without using the water pump sprocket holding tool (J43651). This will cause the balance shaft chain to be too tight, which can cause a whine noise from the front of the engine.

Then the proper coolant fill and air bleed procedures, especially on the 2.0L Turbo.
 
#3 ·
I just had my water pump replaced at the dealership to the tune of $700! Feels like I got ripped off now. The only other shop I trusted wouldn't do the job because they didn't have that special tool. Now I have the high pitched whine :(. They say it's because the pump went out of round and "stretched" the timing chain. And for some reason the new pump and the old gears don't get along too well because of it. They tried two different pumps but got the same whine. I don't want to drive my car while its making this noise. Is this the correct assessment or did they do something wrong?
 
#5 ·
Swendor said:
I just had my water pump replaced at the dealership to the tune of $700!
There are several variables that could account for the difference in what you and cunning paid for water pump replacement.

First off is the pump itself. The GM OEM pump is approximately twice the list price of a "All Lines"/generic AC Delco pump. Add the increase in Sales Taxes and any shop fees based on repair costs.

Second, would the use of coolant. None, drain/refill, recycled or virgin anti-freeze will all have a different effect on the parts, tax, and fees total.

Last would be the labor time guide used to calculate the repair time. Don't have access to one here at home, but would not surprise me if the labor time could approach or exceed 3 hours.

So $250-$325 parts, $270-$320 labor, and you can get a $700 repair.


Swendor said:
Now I have the high pitched whine :(. They say it's because the pump went out of round and "stretched" the timing chain. And for some reason the new pump and the old gears don't get along too well because of it. They tried two different pumps but got the same whine. I don't want to drive my car while its making this noise. Is this the correct assessment or did they do something wrong?
AZDarkSol said:
They did not use the tool as mentioned. This same thing happened to me when my pump was replaced. The mating sprocket gear has been burred (damaged) because of what they have done. The whine is caused by the burrs or nicks spinning against the mating surfaces...sounds like hell, I remember. The noise will not go away unless they now change both the pump and the mating sprocket that drives it.

Go back and insist that your car never made that noise till they did the work. My dealer was puzzled as well till they conversed with the factory guys and realized what they had done. REPAIR WARRANTY !!!
The fix may be a simple as the balance shaft chain tensioner being reset or replaced. Especially if the noise was not present previously.
 
#6 ·
I'm assuming this is an 06?

I should not have to worry about this for 5 years or 100k correct? I can put up with the crappy interior, but if this car starts falling apart in 6k miles I'm going to be pissed.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I took mine back within the first week. My service advisor even recognized that he never heard that sound coming from a Solstice before. They stayed with it for over a week before they were able to determine that the original pump replacement procedure that they had performed was the cause of the whine. Noise that is generated by a misalignment or improper engagement or reduction in full surface mating of drive or driven surfaces is usually a signal of eventual failure of some kind. I believe it would be most likely not an engine failure but more specific to the pump and it's drive components..but the bottom line is as long as that noise is there it is not right and eventually it will either wear itself in and become quiet again ( highly unlikely but possible) or something will fail.

I would at least make the call. I did, that was over a year ago. They fixed it right the second time..has been quiet ever since and the water pump and temps are fine.

I still have the final service repair ticket, here's what they found.

"Whinning noise from front engine area-history concern with water pump.
Noise from front of engine appears to be new water pump. Replaced pump-noise still present-remove belts -test with chassis ears to help isolate -cause still present-test with engine ears listening tool-noise at w/pump area. Remove front cover for access-no visual sign for noise. Inspect balance shaft-no failure-replaced internal pump sprocket for water pump-reassemble and retest- noise gone. Reassembled front cover. Refill cooling system and roadtested 6 miles to verify noise is gone and operation is as designed upon completion of repairs. "

They could not even see the damage to the sprocket, it was that insignificant to the eye, but the damage was there and was generating the noise. They replaced the sprocket and it was quiet again.
 
#9 ·
Well that settles it, I'm not driving it this weekend. I'll get a rental until Tuesday. You mentioned temps and that reminded me that all the way home my temps never got below 200 degrees. Even with the bad pump I was getting 190 degrees. Did they charge you for the sprocket replacement?
 
#12 · (Edited)
Small Dealer said:
The fix may be a simple as the balance shaft chain tensioner being reset or replaced. Especially if the noise was not present previously.
AZDarkSol said:
I still have the final service repair ticket, here's what they found.

"Whinning noise from front engine area-history concern with water pump.
Noise from front of engine appears to be new water pump. Replaced pump-noise still present-remove belts -test with chassis ears to help isolate -cause still present-test with engine ears listening tool-noise at w/pump area. Remove front cover for access-no visual sign for noise. Inspect balance shaft-no failure-replaced internal pump sprocket for water pump-reassemble and retest- noise gone. Reassembled front cover. Refill cooling system and roadtested 6 miles to verify noise is gone and operation is as designed upon completion of repairs. "

They could not even see the damage to the sprocket, it was that insignificant to the eye, but the damage was there and was generating the noise. They replaced the sprocket and it was quiet again.
To inspect the balance shafts, they probably removed them. This means that the tensioner was removed, and during reinstallation it was reset. So that may have fixed the noise, if it was the cause, while they replaced the sprocket also.

Here is the tensioner. It must be removed before removing the chain, which would be required if going deeper into the engine or replacing something chain driven.



Swendor said:
The noise was not present previously. This should be fixed free of charge, correct?
Would definately believe it should be redone by the shop. They may have their policy on "warranty" repairs posted or on your RO.

AZDarkSOl said:
There may be a service bulletin out on this by now. This was all done well over a year ago with no problems or noise since.
No service bulletin, but service information about this possibility has been around since 2005, of course at that point the Solstice would not have been listed, but other EcoTecs could have been, although may have been just a Saturn message. Something that could be overlooked, even though the service manual should have had warnings about requiring the tool usage.

The 2005 service information has been very recently updated, that is why it was top of mind and the original hijack post was made.

The GM essential tool has a $230+ list cost. Here is a picture of a version of the tool:
 
#13 ·
SD I appreciate all the help. I asked to keep the old water pump and I'm having a hard time discerning any visible damage apart from the shaft not moving very freely. Are you supposed to be able to give it a flick and it'll spin freely on its own? From the diagram, it seems like that shouldn't matter since it's got all that power from the timing chain turning it. I also see nothing "out of round" as they claim nor is there any play in the shaft. No shavings. It seems fine. Is there a weep hole on this thing? How can I tell it's bad?

AZDarkSol:
Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope this turns out as well as yours did.
 
#14 ·
Just read this a couple days ago thinking, "water pump failure at 41k...ridiculous". Then yesterday I was driving downtown and my low coolant light came on. Guess what's leaking...at 43k...awesome...
 
#249 ·
Same thing here

I don't know if you all still check this, but I am at 43k miles and the light came on Sunday... I went to 2 local mechanics. First said they know where the leak is but can't touch it bc of insurance issues. Second place found the leak but didn't have the tool so wouldn't touch it. Both places worked on my car for about 2 hours but didn't charge me. SO... we know it's coolant leak at the water pump. But, I have to go to the GM dealer. I have 2 big bottles of anti freeze to pour in before I start driving. How much are they going to rip me off is the question?!?!?
 
#15 ·
As a former many multiple VW owner and official member of their water pump, alternator, starter motor, and AC compressor of the month club, you Pontiac guys are just a bunch of babies! :lol:

Even at $230, buying that service tool and doing it yourself once the warranty is over will still put you ahead of the game.
 
#191 ·
For anyone interested in doing it yourself this tool is now only $35.00! This assumes the link is to the correct tool...
 
#17 ·
Called the dealership this morning and they explained to me that the bad water pump caused the sprocket to go out of round and that's whats causing the noise. I'm getting the feeling they're not going to replace it free of charge since they claim they followed the repair procedure correctly, even mentioning the special tool needed to do the job. The pump causing the sprocket to go out of round still doesn't make sense to me.

I'm still tempted to take it to another dealership to have them look at it but I'll be looking at $92-120 for a once over and I've had a rental for three days since I didn't want to damage the engine.
 
#19 ·
:skep:

Did the sprocket make the noise before or after the repair? If it was like mine the noise came after. If the original pump that failed caused damage to the sprocket then wouldn't there have been a noise before the repair? My pump had failed and was leaking not whineing. Whineing occured immediately after the pump was replaced. In my case sprocket was damaged by initial repair procedure. If they stick to their claim then your new pump could fail and they would claim that the damaged sprocket caused the failure and void your pump warranty. This thing could just get crazy. Like the chicken or egg thing. But in this case which came first the intial pump replacement or the whineing sprocket?
 
#21 ·
Ok, so I take my car to another dealership and explain the work I had done previously. They tell me the water pump is bad. :(. I explained that it had just been replaced but they contended that the tech listened to it and determined it was the pump. I ask if they're sure its not the sprocket. They're not sure. Can you take off the timing cover to inspect the sprocket or see if anything's awry? Not without repairing it. WTF! I'm about at my wits end. I'll try again tomorrow.
 
#23 ·
After reading this thread I'm wondering how common is the water pump failure now. I'm at 50,000 miles and hope I don't have to repair mine soon.
 
#24 ·
Mine went at 27K. No warning. Came out in morning and found antifreeze puddle under car. No problems up 'till then and I always drive with my display on TEMP (Being hot Phoenix and all) ..It's like it failed after cooling down.
 
#25 ·
I brought my car to Precision Imports this morning and they called saying they believe it's the water pump since it's only doing it while hot...

They are saying the part costs over 200 bucks.

I'm freaking out over the cost, dunno what the hell.
 
#26 ·
The question here is the water pump consider part of the power train warranty. If it is it should be covered under it.
 
#27 ·
He is calling one of the dealerships to ask around, since that is all I have left is the major power train warranty and probably also to find the part which I also found at napa for 60 bucks.
 
#28 ·
The guy working on my car called to tell me that he can't find that tool, J43651, anywhere!

He has given up on looking, basically.

Anyone in the phoenix area have one or know where to find one?
 
#30 ·
I have to say one thing!

Thank the lord for the extended power train warranty!

It was, in fact, covered! She said they change the 'rules' a lot when it comes to the warranty and it seems this year was my lucky year!

They are going to do it on the house.

I am SO RELIEVED you can not even begin to imagine (now I can make my car payment.) :lol:
 
#31 ·
As long as we're doing some public service announcements, let me bring up one thing I have experience with. Don't ever let that 100K mile Dextrol coolant go more than 40K without replacing it. Have had 2 GM vehicles start leaking at various gaskets, around 65K. Luckily for me, I had extended warranties on both of them.

I changed it in my Sol at 33K, and will continue to do so.

As far as the frequency of the water pump going out, of all the swsc members here in Texas that I know, around 40 I guess, only one has had his go out. And his had over 40K on it.
 
#32 ·
Those are good words to remember. The mechanic I brought it to showed me, on the water pump he ordered me, where he thought the leak was. He believe it was around the gaskets rather then the pump itself. He actually thinks the water pump may be fine and the gaskets just need replacing.
Since mine was 47k miles that is some good advice.



This whole experience has given me new faith in the private owner. The customer service and the charge (of nothing) was so very much appreciated.


I miss my Dad, he would have been able to give me the same diagnosis as this mechanic did...Good memories after leaving this guys shop. ;)
 
#33 ·
My water pump started spewing coolant today on my 2006 Sol (65k miles). The local dealership wanted to charge me $630, so I called my son, who works at the local NAPA store. He called an auto shop he trusts, and they quoted him $150 labor. The auto shop called him back about the special tool required (sprocket holding tool). As it turns out, he was able to order a different one (half-moon shaped instead of a full circle). His cost was only around $30 but NAPA would normally charge $46.85. The NAPA part number was 774026 which is sold under the Balkamp line. The manufacturer part number is 13800. The tool, a new water pump from NAPA and labor will hopefully only cost around $250 - $300. For a mechanic, should it be obvious what to do with the sprocket holder if he's never used one before?
 
#34 ·
Let us know how it turns out. We need options. Mine is still in warranty for over another 2 years...(extended)
 
#36 ·
$1600!!!???

Is there a mechanic in the house?? I mean this forum??

:willy::skep::crazy:
 
#37 ·
Seems to me the sprocket should be replaced with the pump, from reading these posts.

1600 does sound a little high :)
 
#38 · (Edited)
Got my car back last night and the notes stated that the coolant was coming out of the weep hole. They replaced the water pump, gasket some hose and the gasket.

The notes also stated that he had to remove the exhaust to get this done.

So, when I was driving it back home the car was making noises. Almost like a grinding noise when at higher RPM's. There are other noises too, vibrations and squeaking like i have mice under the hood.
It's back in the shop right now. The guy that was working on it said that he thinks he didn't put the exhaust on correctly so they are tightening it right now.
(He tried to pull the "well, it's an aftermarket exhaust so.... but I said, it was aftermarket before I brought it in and it wasn't vibrating then)


I'll let you know what's up.
 
#39 ·
The exhaust was loose. He was complaining that my Solo exhaust had "too many pieces" and stated that I should have had it torqued after 1500 miles after I installed it.

He also admitted that it was the first time he had worked on a solstice with a turbo so he had a hard time as it was.

;)

It's fixed! Finally. Let's hope it holds up.

I will post replies if needed.
 
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