Well, I'm trading in my Solstice this weekend...

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A Hah, thanks. Yeah, I won't be a stranger. This was just released: GM sale cleared, path opens to exit Chapter 11 - Yahoo! News As far as I can see, the US government has complete and total ownership of General Motors now... ??? Complete insanity. They said they will change the color of their logo green (seriously) and they will focus on building cars that are fuel efficient. Sounds nobel, but why are my tax-payer dollars going towards cars that I refuse to buy?

Everything and I mean everything in terms of what you have posted here on this thread is in agreement with me and my beliefs. Forget the socialism vs democracy argument and those who attacked you for it, your beliefs are spot on. GM gets nada dime from me in the future. My hard earned tax dollars are what kept them GOVERNMENT MOTORS and this is an example to me of failed capitalism and movement towads socialism. Disagree, fine. Buy their cars then. However, I won't even turning down $14K off of the MSRP on a G8 this past weekend. Sorry, but WHEN I finally sell my GXP. Government Motors won't see my money ELECTIVELY speaking ever again...Man, wish I had met your avatar when I was single. Tshirts aside, what is in the tshirt is awesome.

[turboman808]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A Well, it is actually. I often refer to our government as a republic, but most people don't know what that it is. But, being a republic does not necessarily mean that it's NOT a Democracy, or that it's not communist. A republic merely defines the setup of a city-state-federal configuration. What we have is technically a Democratic Republic. You could just as easily have a Socialist Republic, or a Communist Republic, it doesn't matter either way because of all of those forms of government can still have a Senate or a Parlament. I think you need to do a bit more reading before you're ready for omnipotence.

Under a republic the power is derived from the individual. Under a domocracy the power is derived from the group. Under communism or socialism the power is derived from the government.

You cleary don't know the difference.

Funny thing is there is not a whole lot of difference between a democracy, socialism or communism. So I find it funny you are bitching about socialism and yelling democracy. You must watch alot of fox news or something. So fighting for a democracy cause you hate socialism is so funny and shows just how ignorant you are. Every democratic society sooner or later turns into a socialist society. As we look to the government to solve our problems they become more and more socialist. That it the nature of democracy.

So basically what you are saying it you hate socialism so you want to go back to the infant stages or socialism. You see how that doesn't solve the problem.

For the record we have what is called a representative republic. Just because we hold democratic elections doesn't mean we have a democratic government. You do get the difference I hope.

[BANDITCAR]

Hey, It was good to have you around and hope you don't miss your Solstice too much until you get another.

Kudos to you for keeping it in America.

[82-T/A]

Originally Posted by turboman808 Under a republic the power is derived from the individual. Under a domocracy the power is derived from the group. Under communism or socialism the power is derived from the government. You cleary don't know the difference. Funny thing is there is not a whole lot of difference between a democracy, socialism or communism. So I find it funny you are bitching about socialism and yelling democracy. You must watch alot of fox news or something. So fighting for a democracy cause you hate socialism is so funny and shows just how ignorant you are. Every democratic society sooner or later turns into a socialist society. As we look to the government to solve our problems they become more and more socialist. That it the nature of democracy. So basically what you are saying it you hate socialism so you want to go back to the infant stages or socialism. You see how that doesn't solve the problem. For the record we have what is called a representative republic. Just because we hold democratic elections doesn't mean we have a democratic government. You do get the difference I hope.

Hah, you can make up whatever you want, it's not going to make you sound like you know what you're talking about. Socialism and commnism are totally different. They're the same in terms of governmet subsidy, but one has a dictator, and one does not. Anyway, I'm not going to argue semantics with you, it's pretty ridiculous... I don't understand AT ALL what the point of your argument is.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by SmokinSolstice Wow you too! I keep seeing alot of us old timers on here getting rid of the solstice for something new now.

Yeah, they can have the keys to my Solstice.

When they pry them from my cold dead fingers.



.

[njtex]

Originally Posted by Gizmo Yeah, they can have the keys to my Solstice. When they pry them from my cold dead fingers. .

I'm with you! Bought mine based on the tech details and no test drive. I was shocked at how good it is!

(But then again I have a second car.)

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A Hah, you can make up whatever you want, it's not going to make you sound like you know what you're talking about. Socialism and commnism are totally different. They're the same in terms of governmet subsidy, but one has a dictator, and one does not. Anyway, I'm not going to argue semantics with you, it's pretty ridiculous... I don't understand AT ALL what the point of your argument is.

Man let em have at it. The point of disagreement centers over you getting rid of your Solstice for the suv Ford Explorer. That's your individual choice and I accept that. Many here will only see your selling it as a negative. That's behind the attacks

[tenwatt]

Originally Posted by StevieG Man let em have at it. The point of disagreement centers over you getting rid of your Solstice for the suv Ford Explorer. That's your individual choice and I accept that. Many here will only see your selling it as a negative. That's behind the attacks

I haven't seen a single post on here ragging him for selling the solstice for a larger more practical ford explorer. it was the ridiculous and convoluted logic he gave on how he was making some kind of political statement by trading in a car that rubbed everyone the wrong way.

I opened the post in the first place because I've also been considering trading in my solstice on something slightly more practical. I was hoping to see a discussion on what other cars people are looking at and why. instead I get a horribly uneducated critique of socialism and the GM bankruptcy from Rush Jr.

[gmhopeful]

I love my Solstice because of what it does, not what it may represent (politically, culturally) in someone's mind.

It makes me smile.

One shouldn't own a Sol as an "only" car. When I was scaling the career ladder and creating a family and saving to put a kid through college, a 2 seat roadster wasn't on my radar screen---and should not have been.

But as I near 60, I can afford to own a Sol---and 3 other cars that meet my needs for fun and function.

[silversolstice]

Originally Posted by perris yup your post is spot on but I see people responded to your precise observation I can't stand it when someone tries to make their (usually incorrect) politica points on the main board, whether I agree or disagree, I believe politics should be discussed in an area where people want to discuss their views, not on these threads where their is an unfounded political view that begs discussion even though we would rather not

You should have left it at that.

[deep_blue_sol]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A I'm kind of sad, I will definitely miss this car. I think I was one of the first people on here. I special ordered my Solstice after seeing it on the Apprentice, and picked it up in December of 2005. I don't know what my join date is on here, but it's probably around that time too. I'm trading my Solstice in on a Ford Explorer for a couple of reasons. The real honest reason is because I have a 6 month old now, and with the repairs / upgrades I am doing with my home, I really need a full sized SUV, at least for the next several years. The other reason I'm getting rid of it is because I'm really, REALLY upset with the direction that General Motors has taken. My first car was a 1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6. I STILL have that car. I've owned 12 other GM vehicles since 1996, two of them have been new... my 1997 Grand Am SE Sedan (left over demo from the previous year) and my 06 Solstice. Never in a million years did I ever think that I would see the US government nationalizing companies... and I certainly never thought I would see General Motors get "purchased" by the US Government. Look, it's one thing to give them a loan, but it's an entirely different thing for the US government to PURCHASE them (debt to equity swap). I simply cannot believe how bad this has gotten, I'm sorry if some of you are angry by my political rant here, but you'll simply need to get over it becuase as long as you keep your head in the sand, it's just going to get worse. This isn't about Republicans VS Democrats or vice versa, this is about Socialism VS Democracy. In any event, I'm getting rid of my Solstice, and I've promised myself that I will NEVER, EVER buy another new GM vehicle so long as I live, or at least while GM is owned in ANY part by the US government. I sold my wife's Beetle and we bought a "demo" 2008 Jeep Patriot several months ago (before I knew that 10% of Chrysler would be owned by the government). But, I'm stuck. I've decided that my next car purchase, I'm going to give Ford my money... I'll still hang around from time to time... but I won't own a Solstice. I took all the performance parts off and sold them on eBay. It was a great car... maybe I'll buy a used one 10-15 years from now when I can get a used hardtop for 5-6 grand...

I am showing my displeasure with the direction GM is taking, by only keeping a car of the brand they chose to discontinue
And no, this does not mean I'm in line for a Vibe...

[GS Stage 1]

Originally Posted by turboman808 Under a republic the power is derived from the individual. Under a domocracy the power is derived from the group. Under communism or socialism the power is derived from the government. You cleary don't know the difference.

Sorry turboman, I just can't help myself, going to have to disagree with you on this one:

Democracy: government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Republic: a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.

(Source: Just about any fricken reputable dictionary on the planet. )

A Democratic Republic is just a matter of how the votes are counted, the ultimate power is still with the individual; or more appropriately, how the majority of the individuals vote. The Founding Fathers chose to set up a "Democratic Republic" instead of a straight up "Democracy" for two reasons:

1. Simple logistics, due to technology restraints of the time, it would of taken forever to count one person as one vote.

2. They felt that by assigning "electoral votes" to the population centers, they could at least curtail, somewhat, the tendency for large population centers constantly overruling less dense populated rural areas. (Although this philosophy could certainly be interpreted as being in direct conflict with true Democracy, it does hold at least a little credence, because of the concept of mob mentality. However it really is moot, because the very slight weighting of the "electoral vote" system is so small as to be mathematically irrelevant by today's standards.)

And for that matter, socialism and communism are not automatically indicative of a totalitarian government (no reason you can't have a Democratic Socialist State, or a Democratic Communist State, see Europe for varying degrees of failure on the former).

First and foremost, socialism/communism are types of ECONOMIES. Much like Capitalism is the economy of our great nation. At the core philosophy of socialism/communism is who owns the property, which of course is the community as a whole, not the individual. Capitalism is the opposite. Capitalism is survival of the fittest, he who works the hardest gains the most wealth. Socialism is "spreading the wealth around", regardless of who works the hardest. Now where have I heard "spreading the wealth" lately? hmmm, can't quite remember.

Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Communism: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Capitalism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

(Source: Again, just about any fricken reputable dictionary on the planet. )

The OP is just expressing his concerns with GM becoming a "nationalized company" (Socialism), and he doesn't feel like further subsidizing this movement by purchasing from Government Motors. And I for one respect his position. Perhaps, if more voters felt this way, we wouldn't be going down this road in the first place. But the fact of the matter is that we are, like it or not.

Democracy worked, we got what we voted for. I know I have said this before, but it is not like the current administration misled anyone during the election cycle. And I respect the President for that. He said exactly what he had planned and he is sticking with his convictions. I don't have to agree with him, but he sure as hell didn't lie to me about what he had planned either.

[PubliusE]

Originally Posted by 82-T/A I'm kind of sad, I will definitely miss this car. and I certainly never thought I would see General Motors get "purchased" by the US Government. Look, it's one thing to give them a loan, but it's an entirely different thing for the US government to PURCHASE them (debt to equity swap). In any event, I'm getting rid of my Solstice, and I've promised myself that I will NEVER, EVER buy another new GM vehicle so long as I live, or at least while GM is owned in ANY part by the US government.

Hey Man, don't let all the negative posts get to you. As you said, it is your choice. The child and home repairs certainly are a valid reason. The Solstice is anything but practical.

I understand your position on GM being government owned. My Dad recently told me he would not buy another GM. This is from a guy who always owned GM vehicles. From the first car I remember a '67 Buick Wildcat to his current Silverado. I on the other hand just traded my '04 Trailblazer for a brand new GMC Acadia. The deals were too hard to resist.

I'm not happy about the government ownership but feel it is worth a wait and see. Of course changing the logo to green isn't helping.

Enjoy your Ford. It's a good second chioce

[GreyFox]

GS Stage 1
Finally...a well put together and researched post without the added attraction to talk down to someone.....

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by gmhopeful I love my Solstice because of what it does, not what it may represent (politically, culturally) in someone's mind. It makes me smile. One shouldn't own a Sol as an "only" car. When I was scaling the career ladder and creating a family and saving to put a kid through college, a 2 seat roadster wasn't on my radar screen---and should not have been. But as I near 60, I can afford to own a Sol---and 3 other cars that meet my needs for fun and function.

So individual choice in vehicle does not matter? He could buy any car he wanted was far as I'm concerned. It is his choice and not mine. I'm gonna buy what I want when I want it, and NO GOVERNMENT and NO OTHER INDIVIDUAL should determine what I should buy based on some arbitrary idea of what they think I ought to do or not do. He chose to buy a Sol which was his choice and now CHOOSES to get something for him and his family which is again his CHOICE. The negative regarding GOVERNMENT MOTORS is in reality the truth, as I see it. And, I will give them no more of my dollars---electively, through the purchase of their vehicles regardless of the appeal to my taste or senses. I will find another manufacturer of any nationality and of any origin who makes what I want, be it German, Japanese, Korean, or Indian for that matter.

Lastly, in a TRUE REPUBLIC, AUTHORITY is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. I submit to anyone to tell me that our elected public officials are "best fitted" to represent us, when they steal, lie, cheat, commit perjury, adultery and all other crimes and misdemeanors to destroy the public trust. Name a politician and I can name him a cheat, lier, thief, or adultery most certainly given his record.