Keep the faith?

[Fformula88]

Originally Posted by Lee Willis I run the marketing function for a Fortune 500 company: not quite the size of GM but within much less than an order of magnitude, so I will presume to know how GM might be thinking. They have no cash, they have government scrutiny, and they have to focus on core products and green issues. I think it is likely they would dump the Solstice coupe just because its production would mean dedicating cash and effort and a model line split, all for a very short term gain (they would sell a lot in the first few months but then it would lead to multiple models at the dealers, etc.). Of more importance: it is not beyond considerationt hat they would dump the entire line as a cost saving/market simplification move. They have sold all or most of the Solstices and Skys they ever will at high prices. All that is left is marginal market.

Interesting perspective.

I would only add that the cost of producing the coupe at this point would be just materials and labor. The development and engineering costs have been spent already, as well as some marketing costs. Plant staff has also already been trained. So, dumping the coupe doesn't really save them anything except manufacturing costs.

Other than that, I agree that their cash situation, gov't scrutiny, etc, and the current market for kappas makes this car an easy target.

[CHEVYSOL]

I noticed some recent discussions about the car’s future miss one very important fact:

It is not a real car. It is a wonderful marketing gig in the shape of a car.

To be manufactured Solstice does not have to be “priced right”, or to “sell well”,
or to be a “good car” for that matter. IT HAS TO LOOK COOL – THAT IS ALL.

And it works. You, Solstice People, bought it!
In fact, the only thing you really like about Solstice is how it looks from outside.

It is a smart marketing tool. It was designed to look good and sell something else.
Something ordinary, boring. Like a G3, or G6.
Just stare at it, dude. That’s what it is for.
Look at the Solstice - buy a rebadged Cobalt, got it?

Pontiac does not need Solstice if there is nothing to sell.
Chevy is a different story. Corvette does not sell anything anymore.
Chevrolet Solstice will sell yet more Cobalts.
Also bowtied Solstice will sell itself far better than Poncho Solstice, granted.

Just one Solstice in every Chevy dealership makes the plant working for a whole year.
It does not cost anything to make Coupes now too. Just turn on the lights.
My guess: close to 3000 (three thousands) before the sales will stall completely.
Those could be Camaro sales EASY.

By now it is obvious that lunching Camaro and Coupe at the same time is a blunder.
That is one of the reasons for no Solstice Coupe and no Camaro Convertible.

NHTSA will address the long overdue new roof crush standard in August 2009.
This fact alone makes production of no rollbar roadsters {Soli/Sky/Vette) questionable.
The Coupe wins here. Go figure.

And that is what they do right now – trying to figure it out, to sort it off, sorta,
to guess the guess, kinda. While operating in a panicking mode with comatose fervor.

Do not expect anything radical to happen before GM goes for more money again (March).
GM will blame Rick for that. So Rick has to be there until then, but no longer.
With GMAC in the money, Obama is not going to talk to Rick. It will be somebody else,
and that somebody is gonna start a TOTALLY NEW GAME.


Marry Christmas, Solstice People!

[Woody Stone]

I recall reading somewhere in this forum months ago that the Coupe is a "Targa", whic actually uses the same body and frame as the raodster, I am sure the internals of the cockpit/trunk are the consideration of production. If any Solstice is manufactured it would easily be either.. the 06 thru 09 Production of Roadsters perhaps have supported the development of both since there is nothing really NEW in the Coupe. Am I correct in this assumption

[CHEVYSOL]

See, exactly my point.
People just don't look beyond the basics, like production or salaries.


Yes, Woody. It is the same car with a different cap instead of the humpty one.
GM likes to call it “structure”, hinting on something solid, like a rollover protection.
But in reality it is just a big trim piece with some new metal bits for attachment.
It is done on the same line. It does not cost more to make than the rag top assembly
shipped from Mexico (CTS). It does not matter which model to produce from manufacturing point.

It is strictly the matter of the marketing mess that GM got itself into.
The mess so deep, it kills product left and right.

Geez, guys, who could ever imagine marketing mistakes to threaten the company’s very existence for real!

[Lee Willis]

Something to think seriously about is that GTM willview each model as an asset. It is not beyond consideration that they would sell the rights to some models. They could, for example, sell the Cobalt, complete, to say, TaTa, the giant Indian company. The Solstice/Sky cars might appeal to some international companies as a glamour product to liven up their product line.

While folks here might be upset byt this suggestion: realize that anyone who buys it is going to lavish money and development on it.

[Ozone2552]

Originally Posted by SolWhat? I sure have hope that the coupe will be built, I have my order in the queues. However, at this moment in time, reality dictates that I'm going to have to wait, at least a while, maybe a lot longer, for that puppy to be rolling down an assembly line. JMNSHO!

my parents will be going to the dealership this to talk about ordering one for me. from what ive heard production starts in Feb. and distribution starts in march i could be wrong though. good luck to the both of us and to the sol coupe.

[LowLife1]

So it may be just another 4 weeks before knowing this is a go or not.

[DaveOC]

Originally Posted by LowLife1 So it may be just another 4 weeks before knowing this is a go or not.

The plant is scheduled to be closed through the end of January. Then we may know. GM will be releasing December sales number early this afternoon, which may have some bearing on the matter.

I'll be posting after the sales numbers are released.

[CHEVYSOL]

Solstice has nothing to do with real design, engineering, performance, safety, fuel economy or profitability.

If you don’t believe that – open the hood and the trunk and count all double-tape
patches, foam bits, “reinforcing” rods and “stiffening” scraps you can found.
Touch the deck lid and watch the sheet metal around the hinges.
Push on the headlights and watch the tabs cracking.
Pull the door handles firmly.
Look at the front fender attachment.
Look at the rag top “design”. Notice the “method” of sealing it to the body.
Look closely at the gutter around the trunk opening. Kids did that, didn’t they?
Disconnect the battery. Open the trunk.
Remove the roof assembly and put it on a scale. Write down the number. Tell it to anybody.
Remove the roof panel on the Coupe. Now put it back – that’s all you can do with it.
Evaluate the packaging. Name any car with a gastank in a middle of a trunk.
Evaluate ergonomics. Find any other car with thicker doors, but no map pockets.
Put a 95 percentile Oscar in a driver seat. Compare its position to any other two seater on the market.
Compare the brake size to the size of wheels.
Measure the engine bay and the engine size. Try to fit any bigger engine. No go, ha (how come)?
See what is behind the front grill. Do you have to cool the front bumper, really?
Compare the car’s weight to its fourbanger classmates.
Name any car which cannot carry a sparetire.
Corvette apart, name another open car without rollbar(s).

That is just the most obvious stuff BEFORE you press the gas pedal.

[ColoradoSol]

Originally Posted by CHEVYSOL In fact, the only thing you really like about Solstice is how it looks from outside.

Let me see if I understand this correctly:
You, with your infinite wisdon, can state as fact that we, as Solstice owners, don't really like anything but the exterior looks of our cars - Oops I forgot they are not really cars.

For you to state uncategorically that you know what I think or feel is the highest form of conceit.
I have to assume that either you have not read the numerous posts about other features that we owners like or you just choose to ignore them as ramblings by simple minded dolts who fell for the marketing by GM.

Personally I love the looks but would not have purchased it for that reason only. The power and handling are, to me, delightful.

If you dislike the "car" so much, why are you here?

Glenn

[achieftain]

Originally Posted by CHEVYSOL Name any car which cannot carry a sparetire. Corvette apart, name another open car without rollbar(s). That is just the most obvious stuff BEFORE you press the gas pedal.

G8 GT, and G8 GXP have no spare tire even though G8 V6 does.

True race-ready rollbars? Or just style bars? Sebring, G6, S60, VW Cab, shall I go on?

And by design, the Solstice coupe is not a hardtop as it would have to survive a different set of rollover standards.

[Fformula88]

Originally Posted by ColoradoSol Let me see if I understand this correctly: You, with your infinite wisdon, can state as fact that we, as Solstice owners, don't really like anything but the exterior looks of our cars - Oops I forgot they are not really cars. For you to state uncategorically that you know what I think or feel is the highest form of conceit. I have to assume that either you have not read the numerous posts about other features that we owners like or you just choose to ignore them as ramblings by simple minded dolts who fell for the marketing by GM. Personally I love the looks but would not have purchased it for that reason only. The power and handling are, to me, delightful. If you dislike the "car" so much, why are you here? Glenn

Careful not to feed the trolls.

[LeadSled1]

I got some pictures of a nice Merlot Coupe GXP I saw last night driving around.

[Flash's Owner]

Originally Posted by CHEVYSOL Feelings are subjective, naturally. After today’s money (boy, it is still a party here, I am awake for one as you see) I can tell you, absolutely objectively, this: Comes early March now, go to Milford around midday time. Or better yet, between Mound and Van Dyke, mornings and evenings. You can wait on the street, or drive in the Tech parking from the Old 13 Mile. No one will stop you there (any current GM vehicle would be handy). Get your camera ready. Take some Validol. Look for a patchy camoed gray/black Solstices. Look closely. You will get your facts.

Just my opinion, but I think you may not know what you are looking at. This is only my opinion, things change quickly in these economic conditions. I will tell you what, if there is a North American Chevy version of the kappa in the next two years, I will meet up with you and buy you dinner.

[zzzybil]

Originally Posted by CHEVYSOL Solstice has nothing to do with real design, engineering, performance, safety, fuel economy or profitability. If you don’t believe that – open the hood and the trunk and count all double-tape patches, foam bits, “reinforcing” rods and “stiffening” scraps you can found. Touch the deck lid and watch the sheet metal around the hinges. Push on the headlights and watch the tabs cracking. Pull the door handles firmly. Look at the front fender attachment. Look at the rag top “design”. Notice the “method” of sealing it to the body. Look closely at the gutter around the trunk opening. Kids did that, didn’t they? Disconnect the battery. Open the trunk. Remove the roof assembly and put it on a scale. Write down the number. Tell it to anybody. Remove the roof panel on the Coupe. Now put it back – that’s all you can do with it. Evaluate the packaging. Name any car with a gastank in a middle of a trunk. Evaluate ergonomics. Find any other car with thicker doors, but no map pockets. Put a 95 percentile Oscar in a driver seat. Compare its position to any other two seater on the market. Compare the brake size to the size of wheels. Measure the engine bay and the engine size. Try to fit any bigger engine. No go, ha (how come)? See what is behind the front grill. Do you have to cool the front bumper, really? Compare the car’s weight to its fourbanger classmates. Name any car which cannot carry a sparetire. Corvette apart, name another open car without rollbar(s). That is just the most obvious stuff BEFORE you press the gas pedal.

i stumbled on this while looking for something else...... everything you say makes perfect sense to me.......
yep i love the car and its hard to feel the love in your posts......still i respect what you are saying ........ i can own and love the car and still think or and get ticked ....... i got premium package every bell and whistle offered and i need a dauym pillow or tshirt to keep my elbows from gettin raw on a long trip

.. i don't understand all the troll trash talk- i sorta admire a keen eye .. brutal honesty......we don't all have to agree
you to have the right to express your thoughts - ought to anyway i'm more offended by people insinuating "troll" than any valid dissappointment he expresses

i don't know squat about "engineering and design.......or "marketing still i see your points as valid- i remember us pondering the foam bits- double tape - trunk thingies etc etc...people thought they were packing "trash"....

the marketers had us from "go".... its for sure a "marketer" car before a design or engineering feat" entry level (cheap) - a less than 20g roadster....... ok ok i get that but i still expect quality.... realistic expectations.....

too many door handles fell off and broke.. the fit finish / paint....
the deck lid - well i am afraid to attempt mounting a luggage rack- no room for a spare or much of anything.... permagrin vs grin and bear it - i ain't being ugly but

....there (((IS ))) alotta wasted space whether its enine bay ->between the grill- whether its 6 or 12 inches - its alot !! if it coulda been in the trunk or made changing the battery easier
or lack of map pockets in the doors( not a new concept or price issue)-

i haven't had to change out my battery yet - no doubt that'll be fun

i grew up /was raised to think only dipsticks rode around without a spare..
...i can change a flat and be on my way in 10 minutes...lol... well in my truck and every other car i've ever owned --- which can be a life saver in some urban areas

. now i'm possibly going to be stranded god knows where waiting on a tow truck if i blow a tire..... sorry i don't see that as acceptable - even if the "industry" makes that the "NORM"........ it sucks
i'd a paid extra for a dayum donut - i don't know how many more years of school it'd have taken to figure out how to give us a spare or what i actually paid for the glorified "fiz a flat " i got instead -

compare brakes to tire size - now yuh makin me sad - i assumed, expected trusted that i didn't need to worry about stuff like that
hahaha i have no intention of weighing my roof - i missed that point.... i appreciate i didn't have to pay for an electric one- as long as it doesn't leak i've got no complaints

theres nothing wrong with "great expectations"..... or being disappointed , making NOTES of where they or even opinions of " missed the mark".......... if gm wants to compete... theres plenty room to pick up their game...
....and theres room here for people who see and look for more .......expect better.......see short commings and point'm out...

.... if the designers and enginneers didn't think these little things were important....maybe someone should point it out.....
..... instead of being soooooo defensive....

... more people need to scream about all the little stupid things ... instead of thinking the complaining is stupid or mean spirited.....

a little righteous indignation or mindless ranting - whatever - ought be as welcome .

....the whole "GM" situation is pityful....... if we can't vent and rant ???...what?

.. people buy hondas and nissans for the quality,design and engineering "built in"..-quality products .......... and i don't see them needing my tax dollars to do it- i don't see them needing me to bail'm out- and my 10 yr old skinny door nissan truck has door pockets -
.. we all want american products to be world leaders - i'm not seeing it - don't shoot the messenger here !...... the presentation may sound harsh..... a horse's a$$ or good horse sense ???? i dunno
i like reading (((all perspectives ))).. even this guy's.. whether informative or entertaining...the good bad and ugly....this is certainly not WILD WEST material...

.. some of the responses tho ???
are much more damming and antagonistic..... more insulting
i'd hate to see this guy banned !.......... you don't like him - i think there's a block feature....ignore or ???......... its a forum - we're not required to agree - or take anothers perspective soooooooo personal........