I have yet to find a complete explanation for the "DIC" oil life indicator mechanism within the Solstice, so I'm still curious on its possible accuracy to assist in maintenance.
I believe 5w-30 Mobil 1 has been run in my car, which only has 5800 miles or so, but since the last owner explained the most recent oil change as "synthetic" and the oil life shows 18% (I'm assuming they didn't have the system reset...), I would rather be comfortable and go ahead and swap-in the AMSOIL SSO 0w-30 true synthetic oil I am a dealer for and plan on running.
What can I expect to be the reaction of the system to be for an oil that will easily keep me on the road for 15-20k, although it is recommended for up to 35k miles oil change interval?
What can I expect to be the reaction of the system to be for an oil that will easily keep me on the road for 15-20k, although it is recommended for up to 35k miles oil change interval?
Note that the oil life indicator does not sample the oil in the car. It is an algorithm based on the number of revolutions turned by the engine, and is based on "real" oil, not the synthetics.
Mine usually indicates a 0% somewhere in the vicinity of 9,000 miles.
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#000741, delivered 10/3/05
(the user formerly known as SolWhat?)
It is VERY detailed, but let's you in on a TON of information I would not otherwise stumble upon, I don't believe.
From what I gather, the algorithm takes into account, among TBN and some other factors, the ZDP levels that exist and breakdown over time due to near metal-to-metal contact.
Apparently, GM found this to be a linear relationship over a long testing period, and this if a significant portion of the Oil Life Monitor (OLM).
Coming straight from the fellow's words, a longer interval oil may simply create more of a "buffer" to allow you to feel safe bringing the OLM down to 0%, but since the algorithm could be taking other factors into account, it is still somewhat inconclusive as to the near-exact OCI you can run.
Essentially, I think the further you deviate from your more "run-of-the-mill" shelf-stocked oils, the more of a conservative buffer you are creating to feel confident in the life of your oil. Still, start-up temp, RPMs, and other factors are supposed to play a part, so I think the OLM could vary fairly surprisingly from one driver to another with near identical vehicles/oil.
I suppose I'll just have to find out for myself, as I couldn't be more confident in the quality of Amsoil SSO!
Your not going to change the oil filter twice in that time span? You still have to change the filter even if you don't change the oil. Not unless Amsoil makes a 30K filter?! Yucky!
What is the price of Amsoil? Twice the price of Mobil one?
Work the math and what are you saving? An engine is $700 on eBay.
Note that the oil life indicator does not sample the oil in the car. It is an algorithm based on the number of revolutions turned by the engine, and is based on "real" oil, not the synthetics.
Yes, it measures the revs but a lot of other factors too like temperature (to differentiate between long and short trips), the number of engine starts and a lot of other factors.
This from my retired GM engineer gym buddy that helped develop the system.
Your not going to change the oil filter twice in that time span? You still have to change the filter even if you don't change the oil. Not unless Amsoil makes a 30K filter?! Yucky!
What is the price of Amsoil? Twice the price of Mobil one?
Work the math and what are you saving? An engine is $700 on eBay.
Norm
No, I would change the filter more often, because I can't run an AMSOIL filter, as they do not currently manufacture one for this model vehicle.
If they did however, their filters are recommended to run up to 25k.
At my cost, AMSOIL's top of the line 0w-30 100% synthetic oil (up to 35k miles/1 year) is almost right at $1 more than Mobil 1 0w-30 or 5w-30 (with 1/3 or less the life). Driven to their recommended limits, AMSOIL is in fact less expensive over the life of the oil.
I am an accountant, so the math haunts me. I always consider these figures.
In fact, I prefer to change oil at less than the safe interval with an oil that has a better additive/detergent package. So, I am completely content even spending fractionally more on my motor (if that were even the case) to ensure virtually 0 wear takes place. As I mentioned, with a very good synthetic oil, there is already a lot of conservative "buffer" placed into the system, as the OLM cannot know the TBN, ZDP, and other contents and how concentrated they are, but it appears to be there to AT WORST ensure that you change the oil before any damage is done, which is the goal! If I were running a cheaper oil, I would certainly change my oil before the OLM reached 0%. With quality oils, I probably would not hesitate very much, from my understanding of the system's creation.
The commercial oils are still playing the short OCI game, for one, which I don't care for. But I used to run M1 without fail and I think it is a wonderful oil, so you won't hear me put down the oil much, if any.
Last edited by AppSt2008 : 11-03-2009 at 09:25 AM.
Yes, it measures the revs but a lot of other factors too like temperature (to differentiate between long and short trips), the number of engine starts and a lot of other factors.
This from my retired GM engineer gym buddy that helped develop the system.
Thanks for adding that, as this corresponded to what the former GM engineer posted in the link I put up here. Good to see consensus, as that always helps!
Apparently an amazing amount of testing was put into the oil, which you can read on that thread. They would even get the exact same vehicles driving the same speed except one towing to ensure that the OLM took this into account.
RPMs, start-up temperature, and some of the factors to take into account highway vs street miles were some of the main points, just like you state.
The OLM system does assume a generally linear decline in oil quality with miles, but uses relationships between load, RPM, and temperature to subtract available life from that linear relationship. I have noticed faster reduction in life, for example, during the winter, and longer relative life when I spend a lot of miles cruising in the highway.
I started my 2.4 on mineral (aka: conventional ) oil, and changed at between 10 and 20% life remaining. I sent samples from the first two changes to a lab for analysis, and the report indicated oil condition consistent with the monitor reading. I also have dissected the filter after every change, and found no contamination, damage, etc. Oil changes have ranged from 6-7000 miles.
Early this spring I switched to Castrol Syntech. I decided that, with the OLM calibrated in my car for mineral oil, I would have no problem going to 0% life before the next change. I was surprised after checking my notes that that change happened at 10,500 miles. I dissected the filter and found essentially nothing. I kept a sample for analysis, but have not yet sent it to the lab.
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John
Lexington, KY
Sky VIN 00252
5-Sp Manual
Midnight Blue
The OLM system does assume a generally linear decline in oil quality with miles, but uses relationships between load, RPM, and temperature to subtract available life from that linear relationship. I have noticed faster reduction in life, for example, during the winter, and longer relative life when I spend a lot of miles cruising in the highway.
If you were responding to one of my previous comments, I was referring to GM's finding that the ZDP decline is generally linear, but in no way do I mean that the OLM operates in a linear fashion. It is a gigantic algorithm that takes the aforementioned characteristics into account.
Quote:
I started my 2.4 on mineral (aka: conventional ) oil, and changed at between 10 and 20% life remaining. I sent samples from the first two changes to a lab for analysis, and the report indicated oil condition consistent with the monitor reading. I also have dissected the filter after every change, and found no contamination, damage, etc. Oil changes have ranged from 6-7000 miles.
Early this spring I switched to Castrol Syntech. I decided that, with the OLM calibrated in my car for mineral oil, I would have no problem going to 0% life before the next change. I was surprised after checking my notes that that change happened at 10,500 miles. I dissected the filter and found essentially nothing. I kept a sample for analysis, but have not yet sent it to the lab.
Great post on your experience! This is good info for us all.
The winter months allow for more cold start-ups, which reduce oil life.
More highway miles mean less start-ups and, for some of us , lower RPMs over a constant range of miles.
I will likely be putting in my 0w-30 100% Syn AMSOIL shortly and will likely take at least one, if not two, oil samples during the first OCI to determine what condition the oil is in. I wouldn't be surprised if at 0% the oil is in great shape to run longer. If that happens, which I expect, I'm not sure if I would reset the OLM and set a tentative % of withdrawal or simply leave it at 0%.
The UOA will help me determine that, so we'll see.
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Warranty requires maintenance to be performed at the recommeded intervals. So be careful if your plans are to go past the 0% point.
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MY FAN MAIL: "Unfortunately, it’s attitudes like yours that give dealers a bad reputation."
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Any Service Manual, Technical Service Bulletin, Priliminary Service Bulletin, Part, Accessory, Sales or Product information found here on site, should be thought of as correct and accurate as of the date it was posted. After that any information or service procedure should be confirmed as still correct with your dealership.
Warranty requires maintenance to be performed at the recommeded intervals. So be careful if your plans are to go past the 0% point.
Will a UOA and resetting the OLM still be completely negligent on my part?
I would just like to get good miles out of the oil if the UOA comes back sterling...
Not for the purpose of conniving, but how would you be stripped of your warranty if they cannot prove that the oil is depleted?
I would think they would have to prove you were negligent in putting your vehicle at risk, for their sake, but an oil sample would not concur, necessarily.
Last edited by AppSt2008 : 11-03-2009 at 10:21 AM.
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppSt2008
Not for the purpose of conniving, but how would you be stripped of your warranty if they cannot prove that the oil is depleted?
Guilty until proven innocent.
If there was to be a engine failure, thought to be possibly related to oil, coverage could be denied until the owner could prove proper maintenance intervals were followed.
__________________
MY FAN MAIL: "Unfortunately, it’s attitudes like yours that give dealers a bad reputation."
INFORMATION POSTED ON SITE
Any Service Manual, Technical Service Bulletin, Priliminary Service Bulletin, Part, Accessory, Sales or Product information found here on site, should be thought of as correct and accurate as of the date it was posted. After that any information or service procedure should be confirmed as still correct with your dealership.
Are you a traveling salesperson? 17,500 in a year is allot for a lesuire car.
Besides the $1 you'd save better be selling 10 quarts of that stuff a month to cover Amsoil's $20 monthly fee.
Norm
No, I just daily drive this vehicle, although not much of round-trip mileage at the moment, but may possibly increase a little in the future. We're still talking about 60 miles a day ballpark.
Not sure what $20 a month fee you're referring to, but you must have missed something at some point. I pay a one-time yearly fee to be a Preferred Customer + Dealer. With the oil/fluids/accessories I have purchased for my vehicle, plus what I have saved for others on their orders (although I sell quite sparingly), it exceeds so far beyond my yearly fee that it is utterly insignificant.
So the $100 in sales is absorbed before you make any money? Or 13 bottles a month?
Factor in "less than $50" initiation fee and for the price your paying for Mobil One in your area maybe you should become a Mobil distributor? Walmart has M1 with filter for around $28 around here!
Regardless there is a reason Amsoil cannot recommend more than a 12 month period between synthetic oil changes...they are all the Same over time.
I wish some people would spend time on their retirement you do to break even, if that. It would at least get you under your car for a visual inspection.
Don't drink the snake oils...they are not Kool-aid!
Norm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppSt2008
No, I just daily drive this vehicle, although not much of round-trip mileage at the moment, but may possibly increase a little in the future. We're still talking about 60 miles a day ballpark.
Not sure what $20 a month fee you're referring to, but you must have missed something at some point. I pay a one-time yearly fee to be a Preferred Customer + Dealer. With the oil/fluids/accessories I have purchased for my vehicle, plus what I have saved for others on their orders (although I sell quite sparingly), it exceeds so far beyond my yearly fee that it is utterly insignificant.
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, lower RPMs over a constant range of miles.
Linear Mode
