the intercooler on the ion redline is a laminova (sp?) air to water intercooler built into the intake manifold. supposedly more effecient than an air to air. GREAT option for upgrading to a different S/C. i plan on going to a lysholm type, hopefully the 2.3 or 2.2 l/rev displacement version.
brings me to this, can you have TOO big of a S/C on a motor? big meaning l/rev as opposed to physical size
brings me to this, can you have TOO big of a S/C on a motor? big meaning l/rev as opposed to physical size
Yeah, I would say so! If you just keep boosting and boosting, things start to bend, break, melt and burn. Think of it this way, GM has to warrantee the cars they sell, and if those cars have superchargers on them, they have probably calculated and tested, to put on as big of a blower as they feel comfortable warranteing. GM knows you can get more HP by boosting higher, but they also know that people get pissed when things break! They're now working on fixing their reliability reputation, so they're not going to take chances.
If you don't mind throwing your warrantee out the window, and your willing to take the risk of total engine failure, boost away! Should be able to get hundreds and hundreds of HP... for a little while. Can you have too big of a supercharger? Yes and no. Depends on what you expect your engine to live through.
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Thanks again Bob, for building my car! Envious/Ebony VIN #0051
Now if you really want boost, you plumb the a/c to the intercooler and have the compressor kick off at WOT (73 Vega had this 8*). Somehow the idea of the coolant of an air to liquid IC running at 200F does not make a lot of sense.
If they do, there will be a run on 160F (to get the computer into closed loop) thermostats or some even wilder mods.
Now if you really want boost, you plumb the a/c to the intercooler and have the compressor kick off at WOT (73 Vega had this 8*). Somehow the idea of the coolant of an air to liquid IC running at 200F does not make a lot of sense.
If they do, there will be a run on 160F (to get the computer into closed loop) thermostats or some even wilder mods.
Why would the liquid in the air-to-liquid intercooler be around 200F? (I'm just not understanding, or I might be reading your statement wrong)
That's what the heat exchanger is for, decreasing the self contained liquid temperature to a level below that of the air being pumped in via the Supercharger/Turbocharger so that it can transfer the heat from the air. You would think this would make the liquid temperature a good bit cooler. Looking online it looks like an air-to-liquid by Spearco reduces the water temp to as low as 45F depending on how much money you want to spend. The cheaper ones seem to drop the liquid to 110F. On the cheaper ones it looks like the liquid out temps can reach near 200F, but then the heat exchanger drops it back down to much lowers temps.
A difficulty with intercoolers is that you have 300-400 degree air at the inlet and need to cool enough to avoid instant detonation (as well as increased cyl filling) The 45 degree units use an ice packed cooling tank (why I mentioned you might plumb to an A/C since the general is not going to include an ice maker.
Keep in mind that without a cooler you are going to have to either divert engine coolant from the radiator (in which case you want to run the engine as cold as possible) or mount yet another radiator somewhere for long term use.
This is why if it were me, I'd hook the a/c to run R-134A through the intercooler, could be done almost invisibly and would use a fluid designed for heat transfer.
Actually, the 45F one's I was reading about are plain liquid units that have their own internal pump to move the internal coolant through a radiator/heat exchanger mounted up front like a plain air-to-air intercooler. To get the liquid temp down that low though they sacrifice CFM to give more cooling time. The 110F ones are able to move like 1500CFM where the 45F one only 700CFM. Of course I bet the 45F was based on a set of best case scenarios. Cause no matter how good it is I don't think you'll get 45F from our lovely Central Florida sumer weather as you know.
The main problem with these setups is the requirment of the liquid pump. You either have to add an electric pump that adds weight and draws power, or you add a pully driven pump that adds to the work the belt has to do.
Ah, you can get some pretty good numbers out of a self contained liquid to air roots type blower. Here is the kit alot of guys in my club are running. It's an M63 genIII with electric cooling pump. This is being run at 9psi on 10:1 pistons and making 100whp above stock. You can add a alcohol injection kit and run 15psi making 150+whp increase on totally stock motor.
Why would the liquid in the air-to-liquid intercooler be around 200F? (I'm just not understanding, or I might be reading your statement wrong)
That's what the heat exchanger is for, decreasing the self contained liquid temperature to a level below that of the air being pumped in via the Supercharger/Turbocharger so that it can transfer the heat from the air. You would think this would make the liquid temperature a good bit cooler. Looking online it looks like an air-to-liquid by Spearco reduces the water temp to as low as 45F depending on how much money you want to spend. The cheaper ones seem to drop the liquid to 110F. On the cheaper ones it looks like the liquid out temps can reach near 200F, but then the heat exchanger drops it back down to much lowers temps.
ok, now if i'm running the same boost, say 12 psi, with a bigger blower creating less heat, i should theoretically see more power, correct?
Ah, you can get some pretty good numbers out of a self contained liquid to air roots type blower. Here is the kit alot of guys in my club are running. It's an M63 genIII with electric cooling pump. This is being run at 9psi on 10:1 pistons and making 100whp above stock. You can add a alcohol injection kit and run 15psi making 150+whp increase on totally stock motor.
had to sell the tibby just about the time he was starting to make some real progress! i've gone back here and there and now the "impossible" turbos are now becomming twin turbos. goes to show what dedication and determination will do for you with enough time and money!
Yup. T.C. has just taken one of our members cars to the track last week. 2.7L auto, all stock bottom end. After pulling 327whp on the dyno, they tossed some slicks on it and pulled a 1.7 60ft and even with a grounding problem that caused them to pull out at the 1000ft mark they still made a 12.62 / 102mph pass!! Should have been a 12.2 probably. They are now putting in a built bottom end and turning up the wick to put her in the 11's.
Yup. T.C. has just taken one of our members cars to the track last week. 2.7L auto, all stock bottom end. After pulling 327whp on the dyno, they tossed some slicks on it and pulled a 1.7 60ft and even with a grounding problem that caused them to pull out at the 1000ft mark they still made a 12.62 / 102mph pass!! Should have been a 12.2 probably. They are now putting in a built bottom end and turning up the wick to put her in the 11's.
i'm drooling...
they always did say the auto was more "enjoyable" to drive than the 6spd. with the supercharger, and mine was auto. i can't believe they're making that kind of power now though, i guess it was inevitable!!! i'm hoping to make that kind of power sometime soon with the ion redline, i'm already in the process of getting the blower (whipple 2300!).
btw, what are they doing for fuel with that much power?
they always did say the auto was more "enjoyable" to drive than the 6spd. with the supercharger, and mine was auto. i can't believe they're making that kind of power now though, i guess it was inevitable!!! i'm hoping to make that kind of power sometime soon with the ion redline, i'm already in the process of getting the blower (whipple 2300!).
btw, what are they doing for fuel with that much power?
Well there is a few options depending on how far you want to go. Either 290cc or 440cc injectors, drop-in fuel pump with 560bhp @ .45bsfc, adjustable FPR, fuel rail upgrade and fuel tuner of course.
Well there is a few options depending on how far you want to go. Either 290cc or 440cc injectors, drop-in fuel pump with 560bhp @ .45bsfc, adjustable FPR, fuel rail upgrade and fuel tuner of course.
Good luck with your project! :thumbs
thanks, should be fun, as i'm doing everything myself, and i'm taking some hints from some of the NT.com DIYs for some other things, cannot wait till next summer to go to the track, as i want a baseline for times and power before i do any performance mods like motor mounts, intake, exaust, etc.
