Buick kept, Pontiac dumped. Why?

[Radio Doc]

Someone else asked that question in a "Letters to the Editor" in Crain's Automotive News a couple of weeks ago.

In the October 26th issue of AN, Susan Docherty, GM VP of U.S. Sales, responded.

Her short form answer was "Buick is profitable; Pontiac was not".

Um, Ms. Docherty, seeing as you are in a explaining mood, maybe you could 'splain why, for the last two years, Pontiac outsold Buick TWO to one in the USA AND Canada. With sales like that, just why was Pontiac un-profitable? It would seem that would require an explanation...

[Seldom Home]

Don't have the answer either. I have two Pontiacs and one Saturn. Looks like I can really pick them.

[KappaNumber]

I think what is NOT being said is that the government forced them to drop Pontiac as part of the reorganization plan during bankruptcy. Rick Wagner's original plan did not call for dropping any brands. We all know that the government fired Rick and told GM to "try again".

I still find it hard to believe that everytime I look at the Pontiac "dart" on my Solstice, that there will never be any more Pontiacs. So far I have owned the following Pontiacs:

'67 Bonneville 428 hardtop sedan
'72 Catalina 400 hardtop coupe
'81 TransAm 301
'83 TransAm 305 H/O
'84 TransAm 305 H/O
'04 GTO 5.7
'05 Bonneville GXP Northstar
'09 Solstice GXP 2.0L

I feel like I have done my part supporting the Pontiac brand over the years.

[FieroVin]

Originally Posted by Seldom Home Don't have the answer either. I have two Pontiacs and one Saturn. Looks like I can really pick them.

You are preachin' to the choir here... I too have only ever owned Pontiac or Saturn as far as GM goes, I'm not sure if they have anything else of interest to me.

I keep hoping that they haven't tried to sell off the Pontiac name because they plan to bring it back if/when they get back on thier feet.

[Ausserdog]

My track record is much the same. Currently in our garages are MG's, Triumphs, Oldsmobile, Chrysler and Pontiac. We've owned Saturns in the past too.

Notice to all carmakers: If you see me walking toward one of your dealerships, lock the door!

[08NVUSGXP]

My fiance's family has many junked Cadillac's stored on their various properties for whatever reason (if you suddenly have a Sanford and Sons image, you're dead on, as they also have even more El Caminos on the same property) and everytime I see them, I have to wonder, why keep "that" and scrap Pontiac.

I just don't get it.

[rlhammon]

Originally Posted by KappaNumber I think what is NOT being said is that the government forced them to drop Pontiac as part of the reorganization plan during bankruptcy. Rick Wagner's original plan did not call for dropping any brands. We all know that the government fired Rick and told GM to "try again".

I would say to you to "try again".

GM's original plan back in February talked about dropping Pontiac at that time. In fact Fritz had to talk in Buick and GMC into the plan that was finally approved.

Also... Rick told the Feds he would step down if they (Feds) thought it was in the best interest of GM. He also begged not to bring in an outsider, giving the job to Fritz. Fritz was going to be the "interim" CEO, and asked to be giving the full title so as not to be seen as a temporary fit which might have minimized his ability to institute change. Rick was asked to leave, based upon his comments... did the Feds want him out, yes.. did he said he would go.. yes, before they asked even.

The plan from GM was Chevy and Cadillac, copied after the transplants... however knowing that the US market is still close to 50% trucks, and that Dodge was out of options... they decided to keep GMC.

Buick is their only brand in Asia, and the costs to shut it down, and grow another brand would have locked GM out of Asia for years. Besides.. Buick was profitable, so financially it didn't make sense to close them.

Pontiac hurt themselves with the Holden rebadge products they did.. and suffered from the lack of a large rear wheel drive car based in the U.S. Not that Cadillac has succeed here yet.. but Pontiac didn't have any cars for Pontiac or development for Pontiac, only rebadges outside of the Kappa.

[KappaNumber]

What you are saying is true, but my original post didn't say that Wagner never offered to step aside. I was mistaken in saying that his plan didn't offer to drop any brands. The government board thought that Rick's plan didn't go far enough and the he had an air of "friendly arrogance" and wasn't as open to change as much as Fritz. The board was wary about appointing a complete outsider to act as GM CEO, so they picked Fritz as their best choice.

I still feel however, that behind the scenes that the government did put added pressure on GM to drop Pontiac, even though it may have been proposed in an earlier reorganization plan. Just my own opinion...

[Alan_L]

Simple explanation is that China is the largest and fastest growing auto market and Buick is the number 1 selling brand out there.

[NormSky]

One word, China. China auto sales exceeded all North America the first couple of months this year.

This is a world market now and we need to think a little farther from home. Glad GM is.


Norm

[tazz]

ahhhhhhhhhh China they cant even make wallboard right! we should make them a state. after all if they call in the tab on this country they will own us.

[dengel]

Well, one correction, and I guess it depends on how far back you look into the government bail-out process - GM's "original" plan was to make Pontiac a "niche" brand with fewer offerings targeting a smaller market. Much discussion went around the internet on how many models would be kept and exactly what niche market they would be targetting, before the plan was revised to kill Pontiac altogether.

[snaponbob]

Whoever said CHINA wins a gold star. ALL markets are WORLD markets now. If it were not for the Buick brand and the endless benefit that is Buick's cash cow in China, people would be wringing their collective crying towels about a hell of lot more than Pontiacs and Saturns.

[ripple]

Indeed it is China, this is now a global economy and GM play in the global markets.

Buick sales in China were 332,115 units in 2007, up 9% from 2006. Buick's U.S. sales were 185,791 in 2007, down 23%, according to AutoData, based in Woodcliff Lake, N.J. Buick's

[citabria7]

If GM is so enamored with China, so much so that they kill Pontiac and keep a brand doing poorly in the US, because of China sales, they should move GM headquarters to Bejing. Let the Chinese bail them out.