DMAX D Motor - Opel GT vs. BMW Z4

[njtex]

This is from the German version of TopGear, released during the launch of the Opel GT (Solstice, Sky, and Opel GT are all Kappa cars). In a nutshell, they loved the total package of strong/aggressive performance and price! It's also the first piece that I've ever read/seen where they liked the suitably, practical soft top operation.

Even if your German isn't up to snuff, it's great to watch a Kappa car hammering around the track. Really looks at home and smoother than the Z4. They do state that the Kappa's steering feel is better than Z4.

You Tube

YouTube - DMAX D Motor - Opel GT vs. BMW Z4 -...

[Acadian]

my take on these 2 vids.

+1 for bmw for social standing, class warfare, roll over protection

+2 for the kappa for better handling than renowned german engineering.

bmw z4= high class, good lines, handles ok,strong performance brand legacy.

kappa = blue collar worker, nice lines, exceptionnal handling. newbie on the block that is already dead...

nuff said...

rather keep my kappa but compared with a porsche ? mmmm!
i'll take the porsche in a heartbeat !

[Crusader]

Is that what the Sky dash looks like? That center console in the dash of the Opel was way more refined compared to the Solstice. Euro styling or Pontiac interior just got shafted?

[njtex]

Originally Posted by Crusader Is that what the Sky dash looks like? That center console in the dash of the Opel was way more refined compared to the Solstice. Euro styling or Pontiac interior just got shafted?

I think the GT and Sky have the same interiors, they at least have different styling than the Sol. A Sky owner should be able to comment on the actual quality.

The review said that the Z4 has better materials and build quality than the GT as should be expected with a 10,000 Euro price difference. It was interesting that he also wondered if the Z4 interior was overkill for a roadster.

[Heliosky77]

Originally Posted by Crusader Is that what the Sky dash looks like? That center console in the dash of the Opel was way more refined compared to the Solstice. Euro styling or Pontiac interior just got shafted?

The Opel GT and Sky interior is the exact same except the Opel does not have cupholders from what i understand.

[Bosch]

Originally Posted by Crusader Is that what the Sky dash looks like? That center console in the dash of the Opel was way more refined compared to the Solstice. Euro styling or Pontiac interior just got shafted?

oldschool vs new school

One of each.. Put it this way I wouldn't drive a sky, but I am happy in the sol..


Everyone's got their something..

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by Acadian my take on these 2 vids. +1 for bmw for social standing, class warfare, roll over protection +2 for the kappa for better handling than renowned german engineering. bmw z4= high class, good lines, handles ok,strong performance brand legacy. kappa = blue collar worker, nice lines, exceptionnal handling. newbie on the block that is already dead... nuff said... rather keep my kappa but compared with a porsche ? mmmm! i'll take the porsche in a heartbeat !

That's the older Z4, not the 2009 and 2010 model year I have driven.

Here's my take:

The Z4, and for that matter,Audi TT, Miata/MX-5, Nissan 370Z, Porsche Boxster--are all still PRODUCED. That the Kappas are no longer produced totally negates any argument in comparison to those that continue on in production. In other words, try going to any of the other dealers that sell "competing models" above, and try a find a NEW 2007, 2008 or even 2009 version. It will be darned near impossible. My local BMW dealership NEVER has leftover 2 and 3 MY old vehicles that are still untitled and NEW. Saturn does. Pontiac does. That answers the question to me.
The new Z4 is a refined, capable, but overpriced and hefty roadster. At $60K loaded, I'll pass. It does have a nice interior, heck, even the 1999 Z3 had a better interior than the Kappas.

Failure to continue production and falling sales numbers way below what the manufacturer needed to stay in production tells me the cars did not meet their target goals. That means Failure, with a capital F. Others can argue differently and bury their heads in the sand, but recall, all the others above are STILL in production.

Put another way, I'd take a Porsche Boxster anyday over a Kappa, if in the market for a Porsche, because I know the marque still soldiers on.

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by Bosch oldschool vs new school One of each.. Put it this way I wouldn't drive a sky, but I am happy in the sol.. Everyone's got their something..

Ditto. Pretentious. Overly blinged exterior and interior. Nothing new. Furthest away from classic styling of a roadster I've ever seen...

[JayBee07]

> +2 for the kappa for better handling than renowned german engineering.

This is true for low speed situations. In higher speed situations it looks different. I have noticed that you can't follow many cars with much less horse powers and even front wheel drive on a twisting highway with 80 mph or more (here in Germany many highways are unlimited). When the street surface is bumpy it feels even getting dangerous in the Solstice, the rear axle looses street contact and ESP kicks in. The driver in the other car doesn't seem to notice this at all.

A review of the Solstice Coupe described this effect as the car would feel underdamped. Not sure if that is true, maybe the whole suspension system need to be more refined in several ways. When I take my Audi A3 and drive the same road it feels like the suspension would be sticking to the road, what a difference. I have also noticed when driving in a group with some fellows (Boxter S, TT 2.0, Carrera) I have to start drifting trough curves (or slow down) while they can drive a clean line. Drifting makes more fun, so I don't mind.

In my opinion the Kappa handles well and makes fun to drive, but I think because of the unperfect suspension the car can't compete with the Z4, TT, Boxster and certain other cars at higher speeds especially on bumby roads.

[njtex]

Originally Posted by JayBee07 > +2 for the kappa for better handling than renowned german engineering. This is true for low speed situations. In higher speed situations it looks different. I have noticed that you can't follow many cars with much less horse powers and even front wheel drive on a twisting highway with 80 mph or more (here in Germany many highways are unlimited). When the street surface is bumpy it feels even getting dangerous in the Solstice, the rear axle looses street contact and ESP kicks in. The driver in the other car doesn't seem to notice this at all. A review of the Solstice Coupe described this effect as the car would feel underdamped. Not sure if that is true, maybe the whole suspension system need to be more refined in several ways. When I take my Audi A3 and drive the same road it feels like the suspension would be sticking to the road, what a difference. I have also noticed when driving in a group with some fellows (Boxter S, TT 2.0, Carrera) I have to start drifting trough curves (or slow down) while they can drive a clean line. Drifting makes more fun, so I don't mind. In my opinion the Kappa handles well and makes fun to drive, but I think because of the unperfect suspension the car can't compete with the Z4, TT, Boxster and certain other cars at higher speeds especially on bumby roads.

I never read the Coupe review you were talking about but I would think that maybe it's too Overdamped instead for general street use? You're lucky you never have to drive the Cross Bronx Expressway or East Side Drive, in some areas 65 MPH is pushing it and I'd feel happier driving an old taxi!

It's not really fair to compare the Kappas to those real cars you mentioned. Rather than imperfect, Kappas simply have a more focused suspension. It's just a different set of compromises from those other cars. With my driving skills (and family/financial obligations) I bet I could drive an S500 a heck of lot faster at speed than a 911.

[kwtoxman]

Considering the solstice GXP has won the T2 roadracing championship the last 2 years I'd say it is safe to note that the handling of the GXP is some of the best out there. Common sense stuff.

[snaponbob]

Perspective - the GXPs were given some advantages beyond the basic rule set (wider wheels and a few other things) that created an "overdog" situation, not to mention the Z0K package. The other cars were not so blessed. That said, they DID stay together and were well driven.

As for the damping level, when pressed hard, the shocks really are only adequate. The harder the car is driven and the rougher the roads the more apparent this is. When I started autocrossing my RL it didn't take long the really know they were fine for daily driving but not much more. When I installed Koni SA yellow shocks there was no doubt about it. This is VERY typical of GM to under damp their cars (in general). Even Z06 owners upgrade shocks for Solo. Generally speaking, however, the platform is pretty damn good as delivered (FE3 YES, FE2, not so much). I love mine, it is VERY responsive to changes and mods, and is really easy to work on. Too bad the Kappa did not evolve as the Corvette has.

[njtex]

Originally Posted by snaponbob Perspective - the GXPs were given some advantages beyond the basic rule set (wider wheels and a few other things) that created an "overdog" situation, not to mention the Z0K package. The other cars were not so blessed. That said, they DID stay together and were well driven. As for the damping level, when pressed hard, the shocks really are only adequate. The harder the car is driven and the rougher the roads the more apparent this is. When I started autocrossing my RL it didn't take long the really know they were fine for daily driving but not much more. When I installed Koni SA yellow shocks there was no doubt about it. This is VERY typical of GM to under damp their cars (in general). Even Z06 owners upgrade shocks for Solo. Generally speaking, however, the platform is pretty damn good as delivered (FE3 YES, FE2, not so much). I love mine, it is VERY responsive to changes and mods, and is really easy to work on. Too bad the Kappa did not evolve as the Corvette has.

The reviewer mentioned that the GT is an outstanding package with direct steering, wide tires, and limited slip differential that make it so good/fun to drive. To get the same level with the Z4, one would have to upgrade to the M Roadster which offers hydraulic instead of electric power steering and limited slip.

I never looked, where are the bumpstops located on our cars, are they tunable?

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by njtex The reviewer mentioned that the GT is an outstanding package with direct steering, wide tires, and limited slip differential that make it so good/fun to drive. To get the same level with the Z4, one would have to upgrade to the M Roadster which offers hydraulic instead of electric power steering and limited slip. I never looked, where are the bumpstops located on our cars, are they tunable?

The bump stops are cushions that are on the shock absorber shaft. The only way to "tune" them is to replace them with firmer or softer ones. Of course, with the stock springs, if are you are hitting bump stops you are really almost bottoming the suspension.

In response to "wide tires", limited slip, and all that, it's all nice at 6-7 tenths, but when REALLY pushed the car is VERY American, so to speak.

[sunnygator]

Originally Posted by StevieG Put another way, I'd take a Porsche Boxster...because I know the marque still soldiers on.

marque??? who cares???

I love my Sol. I also test drove a Z4 and bought the one that I liked the best, and I was leaning towards a Z4 before the test drive. And what I like the best doesn't have anything to do with "marque." "Failure" of the Kappa platform doesn't mean anything to me either, hard for me to see how it is a "failure" if it brought me such a great car! Now you may say I'm arguing, but that usually implies that one is trying to sway others to their opinion - and I'm not.

I always tell people to DRIVE EVERYTHING they are considering, that is the only way to make an informed choice, and that it's their opinion that matters. If they drive and love it, then buy it! If that is arguing, then I'm guilty. They can choose "marque" and/or read Consumer Reports or JD Powers or R&T, or Motor Trend if they want to and give all those things whatever weight they feel it merits. But without a test drive all that info is not all that important.

Anyone considering a roadster is doing so for fun.....so make sure you have fun and get the car that is the funnest for you!

I'd never tell someone to buy a Solstice or other Kappa, but I'd definitely tell them to give one a test drive if they are in the market, even today. Weigh all the facts, and drive what you love.