It's Official, Pontiac Dead at end of 2010!

[prattm]

Originally Posted by PubliusE I personally believe the best thing for GM would have been to go into bankruptcy. This would have allowed them to have the upper hand with the union contracts and consolidate all liabilities. They would have been able to come out much stronger. It was the administration which prevented GM from filing bankruptcy. You can guess why! I really don’t believe that GM would have given up on warranties if they filed bankruptcy as it would have severely hurt future sales.

I agree completely!
Well now that D.C. has messed up GM, they can move on to their other parties.......Global Warming (sorry Climate Change) and Universal Healthcare (sorry I mean everyone working pays for those who aren't) What a great country we live in!

[solli4me]

Originally Posted by diamoney Originally Posted by Critterman : " Bet all you guys that debaged are sorry now! " Me, I'm going to have to worry about some punk coming by and prying the arrows off!

Good point but the current day punks don't have a clue what Pontiac once represented.

[JRinKY]

Lithium Lotus : What I don't get is why they are keeping GMC. GMC's area already rebadged Chevy trucks. And for the commercial truck line, people probably wouldn't care if it was a Chevy or a GMC.

I think it would be more correct to say that a Chevrolet is really a rebadged GMC.

duckSol : From what I am seeing, that may happen. No GMC badge, just a corp name like MAN as in Maschinenfabrik Augsburg Nürnberg AG.

The last time I checked, GMC stood for General Motors Corporation, so what's the difference ?

[RADRIV]

Originally Posted by JRinKY The last time I checked, GMC stood for General Motors Corporation, so what's the difference ?

GMC in 1901 was "Grabowsky Motor Company" and was bought by GM in 1909.
They then named it General Motors Truck Company...which then became GMC Truck in 1912...I'm skipping some details...but at no time did GMC mean "General Motors Corporation"

[dengel]

Originally Posted by duckSol Then what is this 10,000 unit production to acheive this "break even" metric Henderson is talking about?

First off, the break-even number listed in the plan is 10 million units, and that would be the total number of cars GM would need to sell annually to "break even", i.e. no longer be operating at a loss.

Lower structural costs, which GM North America (GMNA) projects will enable it to breakeven (on an adjusted EBIT basis) at a U.S. total industry volume of approximately 10 million vehicles, based on the pricing and share assumptions in the plan. This rate is substantially below the 15 to 17 million annual vehicle sales rates recorded from 1995 through 2007.

EBIT = Earnings Before Interest and Tax

[Pterosaur]

I get a kick out of the posts saying the government did it by getting involved...Last I checked no one forced GM to take the BILLIONS of bail out money. You can't take taxpayer money and not give Washington a say. All car makers are hurting right now, but not all have their hand out.

GM did this to themselves...it sucks, but Uncle Sam didn't do it to them.

I shall continue to support whatever remnants of the US auto industry survive.

[kwtoxman]

Originally Posted by MomsSol Maybe I just don't understand business analyst - but could someone PLEASE explain why anyone would kill a brand that out sold another by nearly 2:1?? 2008 GM Vehicle Sales Chevrolet 1,801,131 GMC 376,996 Pontiac 267,348 Saturn 188,004 Cadillac 161,159 Buick 137,197 Hummer 27,485 Saab 21,368 Total 2,980,688 Pontiac outsold Buick by over 50%

I saw one analyst (for GM?) say that most pontiac's sold are to fleets (car rental companies) compared to the other brands including buick. And fleet sales have very little profit.

[Koobie]

Originally Posted by kwtoxman I saw one analyst (for GM?) say that most pontiac's sold are to fleets (car rental companies) compared to the other brands including buick. And fleet sales have very little profit.

That is correct. Who else is going to buy G3's and base model G6's?

[brentil]

Originally Posted by Lithium Lotus What I don't get is why they are keeping GMC. GMC's area already rebadged Chevy trucks. And for the commercial truck line, people probably wouldn't care if it was a Chevy or a GMC.

GMC trucks carry a premium like Cadillac does. They make more profit than a Chevy truck.

Originally Posted by Northstar24 This is the unfortunate truth - unless the Sol continues to do well and create a following. I guess part of that depends on the final production numbers as well. My SRT-4 had a good aftermarket and new parts are still being developed despite the short run but I am guessing the 24,000 SRT-4's outnumber the Sol's by a fair bit The turbo 'balt shows promise for at least some parts i would think

2005: 5,445
2006: 19,710 (Solstice) + 8,671 (Sky)
2007: 16,779 (Solstice) + 11,263 (Sky)
2008: 10,739 (Solstice) + 9,162 (Sky)
2009 YTD: 869 (Solstice) + 612 (Sky)
Lifetime Opel GT + Daewoo G2X ~ 5,000

Total Kappas as of today = 88,250

I'd say there's possibly another 1,000~3,000 floating in system now plus I'm betting we can expect another 6,000~8,000 before the Kappa gets killed.

If we're lucky will have reached the 100,000 mark before the end I'm hoping.

Originally Posted by duckSol Then what is this 10,000 unit production to acheive this "break even" metric Henderson is talking about?

If they were referring to the Kappa then it might have been in relation to needing to build 10k per year?

Originally Posted by kwtoxman I saw one analyst (for GM?) say that most pontiac's sold are to fleets (car rental companies) compared to the other brands including buick. And fleet sales have very little profit.

Fleet bolsters sales numbers not the bottom end. It was a trick they've all used to make themselves look like they're #1. Mazda's been doing it with the MX-5 fleet sales to rental lots to bolster it's sales numbers in the USA.

[Sydney]

Originally Posted by brentil I've been referring to him as Fritz "I love C-11" Henderson. They (the government) kicked Wagner out specifically to get someone in charge that was more pro-bankruptcy.

Originally Posted by PubliusE I personally believe the best thing for GM would have been to go into bankruptcy. This would have allowed them to have the upper hand with the union contracts and consolidate all liabilities. They would have been able to come out much stronger. It was the administration which prevented GM from filing bankruptcy. You can guess why! I really don’t believe that GM would have given up on warranties if they filed bankruptcy as it would have severely hurt future sales.

No doubt the government (Bush and Obama) is the reason for Pontiac's demise and the over all dismal condition of the automotive industry. My question is this. After the government forced the CEOs to climb on their corporate jets and fly to Washington to beg for taxpayer money did they (the government) want GM to go into bankruptcy or not?

I'll miss Pontiac. In the 40 years I've been driving I've had more Pontiacs than any other brand.

Originally Posted by Pterosaur I get a kick out of the posts saying the government did it by getting involved...Last I checked no one forced GM to take the BILLIONS of bail out money. You can't take taxpayer money and not give Washington a say. All car makers are hurting right now, but not all have their hand out. GM did this to themselves...it sucks, but Uncle Sam didn't do it to them. I shall continue to support whatever remnants of the US auto industry survive.

[DaveOC]

Originally Posted by brentil 2005: 5,445 2006: 19,710 (Solstice) + 8,671 (Sky) 2007: 16,779 (Solstice) + 11,263 (Sky) 2008: 10,739 (Solstice) + 9,162 (Sky) 2009 YTD: 869 (Solstice) + 612 (Sky) Lifetime Opel GT + Daewoo G2X ~ 5,000 Total Kappas as of today = 88,250 I'd say there's possibly another 1,000~3,000 floating in system now plus I'm betting we can expect another 6,000~8,000 before the Kappa gets killed. If we're lucky will have reached the 100,000 mark before the end I'm hoping.

Those are U.S. sales numbers, and my number agree with yours to the last decimal (does not include sales to Canada and other exports).

Total production has surpassed 100,000:

Thru March, 2009:
Sky: 34050
Solstice: 63483
Opel: 7516

Total Production: 105,049 (very few coupes - they're going to show in the April & May numbers)

[PubliusE]

Originally Posted by Pterosaur I get a kick out of the posts saying the government did it by getting involved...Last I checked no one forced GM to take the BILLIONS of bail out money.

Don't you mean LOAN?

Originally Posted by Pterosaur You can't take taxpayer money and not give Washington a say.

Oh no??? Can you say Banking Industry?

[mceb]

Ugggg I had a feeling this day would come given the terrible shape GM has been in recently. First kappa and now the Pontiac brand. My guess is this probably isn't the end of either as they look to become smaller and leaner.

[JRinKY]

RADRIV : GMC in 1901 was "Grabowsky Motor Company" and was bought by GM in 1909. They then named it General Motors Truck Company...which then became GMC Truck in 1912...I'm skipping some details...but at no time did GMC mean "General Motors Corporation"

I don't think you are correct, although I see as many references to General Motors Company as I do to General Motors Corporation, so I'm still not certain. Regardless, it doesn't change the point of my post.

Your history is a little inaccurate. Max Grabowski's company was called "Rapid Motor Vehicle Company" and was purchased by General Motors in 1909. GMC was first used in 1912. There never was a Grabowski Motor Company (or Corporation).

[mig750]

Originally Posted by brentil GMC trucks carry a premium like Cadillac does. They make more profit than a Chevy truck. 2005: 5,445 2006: 19,710 (Solstice) + 8,671 (Sky) 2007: 16,779 (Solstice) + 11,263 (Sky) 2008: 10,739 (Solstice) + 9,162 (Sky) 2009 YTD: 869 (Solstice) + 612 (Sky) Lifetime Opel GT + Daewoo G2X ~ 5,000 Total Kappas as of today = 88,250 I'd say there's possibly another 1,000~3,000 floating in system now plus I'm betting we can expect another 6,000~8,000 before the Kappa gets killed. If we're lucky will have reached the 100,000 mark before the end I'm hoping. If they were referring to the Kappa then it might have been in relation to needing to build 10k per year? Fleet bolsters sales numbers not the bottom end. It was a trick they've all used to make themselves look like they're #1. Mazda's been doing it with the MX-5 fleet sales to rental lots to bolster it's sales numbers in the USA.

Listen up Folks the demise of Pontiac, Saturn and Probably GM can be totally attributed to the Unions STRAPHOLD on GM and GM'S reluctance to part ways with contracts that pay their employees way too much (that would include retirement/healthcare benefits). It doesnt matter how many Kappas GM sells the overhead costs on employee benefits is several thousand dollars. So this means before you even build the car your in the minus column. Toyota and Honda who have unions dont pay their employees these ridiculous amounts. Example GM was paying laid off employees in a job pool over 16 months full salaries. This is unheard of thats not business smart. Whats the incentive to get a new job???? They pay employees higher than the other companies and thus must make more money off their cars. Problem is HONDA and TOYOTA are worth more so GM cant compete. Poor business decisions on the part of GM as well have hurt customer support and relations. Example we all know there was a klunk in the drive train but instead of addressing the issue GM told us we are imagining it or theirs nothing that can be done. I mean damn my car has no door lock buttons ???? COMMON SENSE MAN... In all I still luv my SKY and I even bought a VUE even though it has a Honda Engine. The only way GM will survive is if they stop pampering the union but this administration is so pro union it looks like GM will fall on the sword. What most peeps dont know is that GM will buy out the Bond holders (at a Loss) and the UNION will now become part owner and its part the unions fault GM went broke!!!!! I guess thats no different than Congress looking to get us out of the recession when its their bungling that got us into it. GO FIGURE