I grew up driving vehicles when there were no such things as power brakes
(unless you had one of those high faluting caddies). The power was in your legs.
I've only experienced the "lack of braking" once on my sol and that was because
I was in a big hurry, jumped in, started car and put in reverse. Hummmm had to
use a lot of leg power to stop the car. On the day I bought my car I was advised
about the the "initial warm up" for the brake booster. I usually start the car,
put on my seat belt, adjust the radio (if I don't like what's playing at the time),
and by then I'm good to go. I just don't get in a big hurry and I haven't had
any braking issues. This is not to say that other people are not having issues.
As previously stated: no car is perfect. I've had recalls on my 1994 Ford Explorer.
(electrical wiring to side mirrors catching on fire, etc) Remember the firestone "death"
tires....I had those and the fiasco getting them replaced. All company have
issues. Talk to any Triumph owners.....no one has just one, because you need a
spare for when one breaks down, thanks Lucas (the prince of darkness).
Well that's just my opinion and
and of course I know the Saga will continue
BUT: I still LOVE my SOL
__________________ GXPsy Rose
2008 BRAZEN GXP
Ordered: June 1st 2007 & Delivered: July 20th, 2007
Premium Package w/ Ebony & Red stitching
18"Chrome Wheels, Rear Spoiler & Sports Pedals
AT& AC, OnStar, XM radio, 6 disc CD w/Monsoon,
Dual MagnaFlow Exhaust, Opel GT Antenna, Splash guards,
Custom Etched Lighted WR and Miscellaneous "Stuff"
I LOVE MY CAR NASSOA Founding Member #52
GM Roadster member
Hummm...
You may be right...I think you don't understand.
"issued as appropriate"...not in this lifetime!
Is there a TSB for brake failure? A recall for it? Or is the General still playing the ol' denial/ignore game again...like they did with the leaking diffs? The later I should think.
You see, it's not the car. It's the way they refuse to admit problems... like taking two years to recall the diff problem...and telling their dealers not to acknowledge brake problems on the GXP's. How pitiful is that?
I'm well aware that all cars break. What matters is how the manufacturer stands behind their products, and ultimately their customers. With GM, you can expect close to zero.
I wonder if you guys even read the threads...
Why should it take a lawsuit, or the NHTSA, before you get action??? -Lumix
Well, I don't want to be a total apologist for the auto industry but... considering that every manufacturer generally has indemnification agreements from its suppliers, the legal wrangling that takes place when there is a determined defect over the remedy and cost takes a significant period of time to resolve. Additionally, any statements made to the public during that time may materially impact those remediation discussions.
I find this discussion about how the manufacturers are out to screw the public somewhat ironic, because the manufacturers tend to act on their own initiative far sooner than any lawsuit can be resolved or government body can reach a final action. No seller wants to have a *good* customer be dissatisfied.
I see no indication that there is anything nefarious going on here whatsoever.
Lack of responsiveness from a manufacturer is far more likely to be necessary caution so as not to fall prey to overly litigious plaintiff's attorneys than an attempt to stonewall the issue.
" think GM's real issue is customer and vehicle service"
I have to agree with this statement. At the risk of being redundant, I went to the effort to find a good service department for my car before I took it in for service. The first service manager I called said, gee whizer we dont know anything about those care, you really ought to take it down the road. I called the place he recommended and talked with the SM there. He said - I know that other guy, we fired him from our shop and he is just trying to get even.
So I scratched my head for a while and did some basic research to find the owner of the automotive group that owns the first dealer. I called the owner and actually spoke with him on the phone. He said that he was very dissappointed in his SM and how he treated me and asked for some time to do research. He called me back in an hour and gave me the name and number for the VP of Service for the automotive group. I called and had a very frank discussion with the VP of S. He then went off for a few hours to find out who in his group of 6-7 dealerships was the best tech for my Sol. He called me back and I am now hooked up with their Corvette maintenance guys. They are treating my car with kid gloves, know what they are doing and very open in discussing the car and what / how they maintain it. It never goes outside. It is always washed, kept away from bad influences in the shop, always goes to the same tech . . . I have my personal service writer. Demetri.
The dealer is a Chevy dealer. You can take any Solstice to any GM dealer and they can and will so the service and warrante work. They will service my wife's Sky, but they cant do warrante work on it because its "not GM" and there is no cross over program.
In the final analysis, if you trust to blind luck and just take the car to a SM to do the work, you may be perfectly happy or you may not. Its up to you to do your homework and go through the effort to talk with the people who will be working on the car and decide if they are the ones you want to do it or not.
As to your comments about the lack of committment by GM to service, in discussions with people in the business it appears that we are currently in a "sales" cycle vrs a "maintenance" cycle. Most dealers were trying to make a lot of their profit off their service side and were putting a lot of energy into making it efficient and customer friendly. Right now it appears that the pendulum has shifted to the sales side, where the dealers are trying to move as much product as they can at the expense of paying a lot of attention to the service side of the business. As a result problems are abundantly obvious.
I have been told that there is a way to get GM's attention by contacting them and bringing to them specific issues with supporting data such that they can then get with their dealers and "help" them improve their service departments.
I think it would be useful for someone to start a separate thread to capture specific examples of good and bad service to act as a data source for eventually contacting GM and seeing if we can get them to address the problem more effectively. There should never be a case where you take a car to one dealer 6 times and they give it back to you with teh same problems unfixed, then take it to another dealer and they find that the electrical system was broken during assembly at the factory - in about half an hour.
Last edited by rob the elder : 03-12-2008 at 08:21 AM.
When compared to other manufacturers, GM is recal happy. They pull people in for the simple things. All in an effort to bring the customer in. Talk to any service advisor, recalls make the dealer money. Not because of the recal itself, but for the service sold while the customer is in the dealer
IE.
I remember a broad recal for the J-body. If you held the starter long enough, the switch could possibly catch fire. If you held the starter on for over 30 seconds. If you can't start a fuel injected car in more that 10 seconds, it's going to the shop. Only an idiot holds the starter that long.
On the other hand, we don't hear of the criminal charges held against the CEO of Mitsubishi for ignoring recalls that kill people.
The best way to get service in a dealer is to be informed. With forums like this, you can be aware of any tsb out and common issues with the car. Take responsibility. Don't just go into the shop and be "The loose nut behind the wheel". Asking a tech to throw parts at a car to chase noises is going to get him fired. Going in with the tsb or furum threads printed out will get results.
Last edited by Craig Lewis : 03-12-2008 at 10:17 AM.
I went to a chevy dealer and was told they cant do any warranty work on my solstice, wierd.
Small Dealer has mentioned several times...only a Pontiac Dealer can do warranty work on a pontiac..its not specific to the solstice....now a GM dealer may do repair work not associated with warranty work, but most may refuse that as well...depending on the brand as some models require specific diagnostic tools and hand tools.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pontiac builds excitement... Saturn has rethought it's image...
The time has come for the enthusiasts... NASSOA(TM)
Founding Member-Vendor and Marketing Coordinator ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" went to a chevy dealer and was told they cant do any warranty work on my solstice, wierd.
"
I talked with the SM and he clearly stated that any GM dealer can do warrante work on any GM car "if they want to do so". If you ask and they say no then you probably dont want to go there.
Now, since I am dealing with an automotive group - they have Ford, GM, Saturn etc dealerships all owned by the same group - they may be making a special effort but that is not what they told me.
Again, they said they can do warrante work on any GM car - but not the Saturn - at any GM dealer and get paid for it.
The group sent me to the Chevy dealer and they have done the recall and several SO's under warrante. They did the inner fender replacement, the rear fender clearance mod, the recall, they reprogramed the radio . . . and charged me nothing .
I grew up driving vehicles when there were no such things as power brakes
(unless you had one of those high faluting caddies). The power was in your legs.
Yes, me too. It was a long time before I drove a Toyota with "power assist". It wasn't the same as the big caddy power brakes..you still had to do a little work yourself. Those old power brake systems would throw you thru the windshield if you weren't used to them. I wonder, tho, if the hydraulics we have now are less beefy in favor of the power assist systems? Even hydraulics is a "power assist" over what would be pure mechanical brakes (like the first cars I suppose), and size of pistons, volume of fluid, etc will have a scaled effect on the effort needed to push the brakes. Which may mean (only a guess on my part) that since the boost does so much of the work, that the hydraulics is not designed to do as much as it would on a nonboost system (are there any, anymore?)
Still, I'm glad I have an '07 GXP. There are enough other things on this car that I am one of the guinea pigs for. lol
__________________
'07 GXP - Loaded 3/19/2007 - 5 Speed auto
Black - Charcoal Leather red stitching- LSD - Monsoon - MP3 - OnStar - XM - A/C - ABS - Cruise - 5 Speed Auto- Fog lamps - GXP Floormats - Chrome wheels - Sport pedals
"Original Sol" 2006 2.4 - 5 speed manual
Black - Sand/Steel leather - ABS - A/C - Power windows/locks - Magnaflow exhaust - GMPP CAI - Vector ECM tune - Delivered Oct '05 - Said goodbye Mar '07 - It was a hell of great ride!
" went to a chevy dealer and was told they cant do any warranty work on my solstice, wierd.
"
I talked with the SM and he clearly stated that any GM dealer can do warrante work on any GM car "if they want to do so". If you ask and they say no then you probably dont want to go there.
Now, since I am dealing with an automotive group - they have Ford, GM, Saturn etc dealerships all owned by the same group - they may be making a special effort but that is not what they told me.
Again, they said they can do warrante work on any GM car - but not the Saturn - at any GM dealer and get paid for it.
The group sent me to the Chevy dealer and they have done the recall and several SO's under warrante. They did the inner fender replacement, the rear fender clearance mod, the recall, they reprogramed the radio . . . and charged me nothing .
What rear fender clearance mod?? First I've heard about that. (This forum is getting to be too big to see everything).
__________________
'07 GXP - Loaded 3/19/2007 - 5 Speed auto
Black - Charcoal Leather red stitching- LSD - Monsoon - MP3 - OnStar - XM - A/C - ABS - Cruise - 5 Speed Auto- Fog lamps - GXP Floormats - Chrome wheels - Sport pedals
"Original Sol" 2006 2.4 - 5 speed manual
Black - Sand/Steel leather - ABS - A/C - Power windows/locks - Magnaflow exhaust - GMPP CAI - Vector ECM tune - Delivered Oct '05 - Said goodbye Mar '07 - It was a hell of great ride!
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Good memory PAO.
Here is a reply to a PAO post from February of 2006:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Dealer
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Dealer
Now your post is a little confusing because you imply that you checked with a generic "GM" dealership service department and a Pontiac dealership service department. If the "local" dealership is not a Pontiac dealership then it would be against GM's warranty policy for them to do warranty work on your Pontiac.
SD this is a bit confusing....an early thread identified that any GM Good Wrench Certified Service department could do warranty work on any GM product....by your statement above..only a true Pontiac Service department..vice a generic GM service department can do warranty work on the Solstice.....is this correct????...What if the local dealer is a Chevy dealer...
It would be against GM's warranty policy for a Chevrolet dealership to do warranty work on a Pontiac. The exception as listed in your warranty booklet (cut & pasted below), would be in the case of emergency. A possible little water leak, as LuckySol was describing, would not be an emergency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM Warranty Assistance Booklet
In the event of an emergency repair, you may take your vehicle to any authorized GM dealer for warranty repairs.
The other written exception, would be a used vehicle sold by the dealership that has remaining warranty coverage.
As far as unwritten exceptions, I can think of three. GM is also allowing dealerships to do warranty repairs on Oldsmobiles, especially in areas where the dealership was totally closed. If it is still in business selling another GM franchise line, it is still the preferred destination. In rare individual cases, the Customer Assistance Center could arrange for a closer GM dealership to perform a repair. Finally, recalls are important repairs that GM will usually allow a closer dealership to perform.
For those playing at home here is the appropriate section for the GM Service Policies and Procedures Manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM Policies and Procedures 2/06
1.4.17 CROSS-WARRANTY (excluding Saturn and Saab)
Cross-line warranty allows GM dealers to perform warranty repairs on:
*Non-franchised vehicles requiring emergency repairs under the GM warranty.
*Non-franchised used vehicles sold by the selling dealer (including in-stock used vehicles requiring warranty repair).
*Commercial vehicles (by designated GM commercial truck dealers)
Participation in cross-line warranty is voluntary. Dealers should determine if they possess the necessary skills (training, tools, and parts) before attempting any cross-line repair. GM dealers are prohibited from promoting or advertising cross-line warranty repairs. Any violation of this could result in audit, dealer charge back or termination of cross-line capability. Repairs performed outside of the warranty are not eligible for cross-line warranty and require wholesale authorization.
Thats what I know and as I said, it is all in your warranty coverage booklet (for the most part).
__________________
INFORMATION POSTED ON SITE
Any GM Solstice Service Manual and Service Bulletin information found here on site, or Sales and Product information should be thought of as correct and accurate as of the date posted. After that any information or procedure should be confirmed as still correct with your dealership.
" went to a chevy dealer and was told they cant do any warranty work on my solstice, wierd.
"
I talked with the SM and he clearly stated that any GM dealer can do warrante work on any GM car "if they want to do so". If you ask and they say no then you probably dont want to go there.
Now, since I am dealing with an automotive group - they have Ford, GM, Saturn etc dealerships all owned by the same group - they may be making a special effort but that is not what they told me.
Again, they said they can do warrante work on any GM car - but not the Saturn - at any GM dealer and get paid for it.
The group sent me to the Chevy dealer and they have done the recall and several SO's under warrante. They did the inner fender replacement, the rear fender clearance mod, the recall, they reprogramed the radio . . . and charged me nothing .
The only way a Chevy dealer could get paid by GM for warranty work on a Pontiac oir Saturn would be if the owners of the delaership also own a Pontiac garage across town or at another locale and can run the paperwork there. Yes, it makes sense that a tech qualified to work on a Solstice would find nothing on a Sky beyond his tested abilities. And at multi-line delaers teh techs can be cross certified. And a tech experienced with replacing a Sol diff could probably beat flat rate on a CTS, but unless the sign out front also says Cadillac, the dealer won't get paid.
__________________
When more than one friend wants to ride shotgun
No, I do not work for GM or any subsidiary or supplier.
Location: Under an invisibility cloak, somewhere in the Northeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by achieftain
The only way a Chevy dealer could get paid by GM for warranty work on a Pontiac or Saturn would be if the owners of the dealership also own a Pontiac garage across town or at another locale and can run the paperwork there.
No, the only way a Chevrolet dealership gets paid, it to do the job, submit the claim and receive the payment.
Getting paid isn't the issue for dealerships.
It is GM's policies and more importantly, it is keeping the payment.
__________________
INFORMATION POSTED ON SITE
Any GM Solstice Service Manual and Service Bulletin information found here on site, or Sales and Product information should be thought of as correct and accurate as of the date posted. After that any information or procedure should be confirmed as still correct with your dealership.
Last edited by Small Dealer : 03-13-2008 at 04:48 PM.
All company have
