Chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler, China’s 21st Century Business Herald reports today. [A National Enquirer the paper is not. It is one of China's leading business newspapers, with a daily readership over three million.] The paper cites a senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom. The hints were dropped just a few days after the same Chinese government gave its auto makers the go-ahead to invest abroad. And why would they do that?
A take-over of a large overseas auto maker would fit perfectly into China’s plans. As reported before, China has realized that its export chances are slim without unfettered access to foreign technology. The brand cachet of Chinese cars abroad is, shall we say, challenged. The Chinese could easily export Made-in-China VWs, Toyotas, Buicks. If their joint venture partner would let them. The solution: Buy the joint venture partner. Especially, when he’s in deep trouble.
At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. Even a hundred billion $ would barely dent China’s more than $2t in currency reserves. For nobody in the world would buying GM and (while they are at it) Chrysler make more sense than for the Chinese. Overlap? What overlap? They would gain instant access to the world’s markets with accepted brands, and proven technology.
21st Century Business Herald, obviously with input from higher-up, writes that Chinese industry must change and upgrade. China wants their factories to change from low-value-added manufacturing to technically innovative and financially-sound high-value-add industries. Says the paper: “It would be much easier now for strong Chinese automakers to go global by acquiring some assets of their U.S. counterparts in times of crisis.”
Deloitte & Touche sees a trend: “Chinese automakers can start with buying out the OEM projects and Chinese ventures of some global carmakers such as GM and Chrysler.”
The Chinese appear to have bigger plans than an accounting firm can imagine. 21st Century Business Herald acts and writes as if its already a done deal, and the beginning of more to come. “In the coming two years China is likely to see a few of its large Chinese automakers and other manufacturing enterprises set a precedent for achieving globalization by acquiring global companies, just like SAIC or Dongfeng’s possible acquisition of troubled GM or Chrysler.”
Just in case you missed it, the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) is China’s largest auto manufacturer. In 1984, the company entered a joint venture with Volkswagen. A decade later, SAIC entered a joint venture with General Motors. In 2007, SAIC bought the Nanjing Automobile Corporation, which had acquired British MG Rover in 2005.
Dongfeng Motor Corporation is a public company, although 70 percent of their shares are reported to be in government hands. They also are one of China’s Big Three. The company has numerous joint venture partners, such as Nissan, Peugeot-Citroen, Honda, and Kia. Dongfeng (which means “East Wind”) was founded at the behest of Mao Zedong himself in 1968.
This is about temporary work stoppages at 4 GM factories...and one of them is Wilmington for 2 weeks in January...makes sense when the company is in a fight for life, but not good news for our poor Kappas!
"Some plants produce slow sellers including the Hummer H3 sport- utility vehicle and the Pontiac Solstice roadster."
I wish people would give the Kappas their due...they are awesome and extremely fuel efficient, not to mention beautiful and fun to drive!
Its funny the young people of our time don't seem to care much who has financial control of entities and properties in our country. Not to mention alot af adults. I mentioned this post (china GM)to a few where I work. What is just so happening to be in the process of off-shoring our work to Mexico and Europe. After 65 years of high tech machining. 800 machinist total. You like to fly? Well what do you think about Mexico building the major components that will determine if you and your family will fall out of the sky or not. By the way I don't fly less I have to.
Anyway I think this is so destructive to our nation. All so the government can make tax money anyway they can with their global control ambitions.
So much for "Mom, Apple Pie and Chevrolet"
GM=America...where at one time we could reap the fruits of our labors.
China=communist.....30cent per hour is as good as its ever been.
If our government loved this county they would end income and corporate tax today and tax all imports.
Then our country wouldn't have to be sold to communist country's so some high dollar people can make money on their stock etc.
So is China going to build our military vehicles as well...?
I can't believe the Feds would rather let China buy out the big 3 then loan them the 25bill, that's redickulous!
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The economic problems right now related to relatively tight credit, poor consumer sentiment, and a lot of at-risk folks going over the edge with debt wasn't the fault of the Big Three, certainly, but this was all somewhat obvious. Again, I will say that very few people accurately predicted all of this hitting the fan at once, but as a whole these are all forces that had to be reckoned with and were not for many, many years. All the signs for the various problems were there and whistles blown, just like with Lehman or the other banks if you bothered to read balance sheets, but since most people focus on what's right in front of them, they didn't bother to pay attention and prepare. The result is that we have a lot of stuff hitting the fan all at once.
The Big Three themselves have a couple problems that have been mentioned before. Sure, they were in the process of turning things around when things started getting slow last year, but they have not moved fast enough in doing so. Up until then they were printing trucks out by the thousands and reaping huge margins off of them. Environmental and other concerns aside, they focused their efforts solely in this category to keep the profit engine going and failed to prepare for any type of market shift. They did not save that money. They did not diversify. They did not make a lot of wise investments in other automakers around the world. They did blow a lot of cash on the unions, bonuses, and general largess/inefficiency. This is completely the opposite of the foreign makers who focused on smaller cars (due to their more significant presence overseas) and built them both extremely well and with decent margins to boot. On small cars that's pretty damn hard. Their investments in trucks and SUVs were late and meant to be the icing on the cake - high margin vehicles to add to their profits and finally compete with the US. This is/was a sound strategy. The small cars pay the bills, the big ones print profits. The Big Three relied on the big ones to pay the bills and make the profits.
From the skeptics perspective I don't think we want to see any of the Big Three completely shut down. Sure, there's some desire to see a pound of flesh, but truth be told it's happening now with them squirming as they are. The Big Three have to change, and do it fast. It doesn't matter if the union contracts change in 2010, it has to happen today. It doesn't matter if they close five more plants if they're still paying the workers to sit home playing on their Playstations. It doesn't matter if they still have to shell out for all those retiree benefits (many of which are double-covered with Medicare, I might add). Bankruptcy does not mean death. It may mean death, but it's not assured. For pretty much all other companies it offers a chance to get it together and get out of toxic deals. If the Feds step in with Debtor-In-Possession (DIP) financing, they could probably use this facility with decent chance of success.
Oh, and Californian's buy trucks from Toyota, built not too far from here in Fremont. Guess who used to own it back when it was notorious for building heaps of crap?
Finally, please note that the payments under TARP to financial institutions have only been flowing for a very short while. Most of the money the Fed has flooded out so far has been through the discount window (short term loans to financial companies to fund daily ops) and from the Fed and Treasury on the commercial paper market (general companies funding daily ops).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhammon
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It should be a warning sign that I spent last weekend in the office and I'm still here tonight. The short answer to the question of who is buying what is very simple - anything that is deeply discounted. The numbers are directly correlating to major promotional/discount pushes.
As for China purchasing GM, regulators wouldn't allow the whole thing to go, but some part of it might. Also, please note that a lot of our military vehicles are produced overseas already. The Stryker, for instance, is a US-enhanced variant of a Canadian redesign of a Swiss LAV. Parts come from the US and Canada, some of which are produced by GM. With corporate structure being what it is, we are not at risk of having this stuff go to China or be produced by the Chinese. Small elements can be shed off if the parent company is sold to someone else and the DoD is pretty active in making sure the sensitive/important jobs don't go overseas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kappster
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To be honest we can't really compete with a lot of the foreign competition. I won't deny that things are sketchy elsewhere. They can, however, do things almost as good for dirt cheap. Doing so also helps them enhance their quality of life. That's fine by me. I'd rather US entities maintain ownership and reap the profits but this will not always be the case. Given our government and private propensity for borrowing from lenders overseas, we have to shed assets in order to keep the currencies in balance. The fact that the last few Congresses were not able to deal with the true problems of Medicare and Social Security mean this will only get far worse in the future. Sorry, but the era of infinite promises made to workers at the height of American industrial power are gone. Everyone has to be competitive now. That means everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyb
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Again, I doubt GM or the others will be bought by the Chinese. A few choice assets, perhaps, but not the whole thing. Also, $25B will not be enough - perhaps for a couple months but not for the rest of 2009, not if they continue to burn cash at this rate, and, as mentioned before, they cannot stem the flow unless they shed something major such as paying furloughed union workers, pensions, or other major liabilities. With no end in sight and a huge line behind the auto union, where does his end?
To be honest we can't really compete with a lot of the foreign competition. I won't deny that things are sketchy elsewhere. They can, however, do things almost as good for dirt cheap. Doing so also helps them enhance their quality of life. That's fine by me. I'd rather US entities maintain ownership and reap the profits but this will not always be the case. Given our government and private propensity for borrowing from lenders overseas, we have to shed assets in order to keep the currencies in balance. The fact that the last few Congresses were not able to deal with the true problems of Medicare and Social Security mean this will only get far worse in the future. Sorry, but the era of infinite promises made to workers at the height of American industrial power are gone. Everyone has to be competitive now. That means everyone.
I'm not sure what your intent was with your statement "we can't really compete with a lot of the foreign competition", so I'll state how I read it and respond. If I'm wrong in my interpretation, I'm sorry.
I've worked in three distinctly different industries, and four if you are willing to count my research around my college days. They include heavy manufacturing (steel), automotive, and presently consumer goods. I've been forced to compete with foreign competition in each of those industries... and we've done well in all of them.
Now you might say that in the steel industry we failed... as many companies filed for Chapter 11 back in the 90s. I would say the cause of that was not management, not ability to compete, not lack of understanding... it was an unlevel playing field. In fact, during that time imported steel was being subsidized to the point at which it's finished price was still cheaper than you could convert the iron ore over to rolled steel here in the United States. What happened as a result? We shut down a lot of domestic capacity, and combined companies. What happened after that? Hmm... global demand remained and increased and prices skyrocketed. Fault of the steel companies... nope, fault of the government and it's polices.
Automotive has the same issues. Take a look at the link I posted this morning, it talks about it in there as well. Most reading this know that the foreign companies gain tax breaks to build plants here, and do not play on a level playing field when it comes to the price of the vehicles. Who controls that? Our government.
Part of my job over the years has been to work with suppliers, in depth, all over the world. I can no longer count the number of manufacturing plants I have been in, the amount of automation, poke-yokes, innovation, new technology, etc. that I have seen implemented around the world. The U.S. can and does compete on a global basis. In most cases (I haven't done much in the world of electronics, so I might be wrong here) I would say with confidence that we out compete our competition in these (and other) areas. We have to so that we can overcome the inequities our government seems so fit to grant.
Now I've also done my fair share of moving product out of the United States to Mexico, Canada, Asia (China, Vietnam, South Korea, India), and Europe. The items I've moved, with success, have not been hi-tech, advanced, innovative processes. The rest of the world (minus pockets of Europe) can not, day in day out, compete with what we can do here. They *are* doing better everyday, becoming more advanced, and will surpass us if we don't continue that type of work and manufacturing here in the United States.
So... I took a little offense (on behalf of everyone I've worked with around the world) when I saw the comment that we can't compete with foreign competition. If you meant that on a different level... then so be it, we might very well agree. But if you mean we don't have the ability, knowledge, skills, talent, motivation... I respectfully disagree.
...Oh, and Californian's buy trucks from Toyota, built not too far from here in Fremont. Guess who used to own it back when it was notorious for building heaps of crap?...
Been to the Fremont plant, not back when they made POS Buicks but after NUMMI.
Sorry, the tacoma, like the ranger, canyon, colorado are SMALL trucks. These are not the profit center, high volume, irrelavant "TRUCKS" that are referred to when they talk about trucks. The comparable "TRUCK" that Toyota makes is called the tundra (comparable to the F-series and the Sierra/Silverado. The two US-3 trucks are EACH sold almost 7:1 in California, in volumes that dwarf the tacoma volume by about 5:1 (toyota sells more tacomas than tundras).
Even in California.
The obscenely high profit margin vehicles, the ones that everyone really likes to hate on - the Large SUV class - are the ones that USED to be higher volume and are significantly declining. These tend to be based off of the high-volume truck platforms - their cousins in structure.
Even in the depressed market, GM/F/Chrysler with their entries in this market far outsell Toytota's land cruiser/sequoia - EVEN in California.
I know that people want to think that California is different from the rest of the country. Heck, some entertaining friends even think that CA should be a different country. This underscores the failure to see the global economy as a whole.
I said in my last wordy post that the effects of a US-3 Chapter 11 are unknown and unknowable. There are some guidelines, though, we can use.
We can ask people if they would buy computers from a bankrupt computer supplier. The answer is largely 'sure', especially if they can get it for less money.
We have a perfect example - indicated by internal polling prior to them declaring Chapter 11 - in the airline industry. Would people still fly on a bankrupt airline?
Absolutely.
Will people still buy equipment from a bankrupt store such as Circuit City? Most likely.
So what's the big deal with the auto companies?
We have a couple of polls, the most recent, showing that people considering a new car would not consider buying from a bankrupt automotive company. About 80% would not buy from a bankrupt automaker.
Ask these people why and you get varying answers, but the keys are:
-The proposition of buying a $900 ticket from a Chapter 11 airline to get from NY to LA and back a week later, successfully, is a universe different than you getting a 5 year loan and buying a $30,000 commodity from a company that may not be in business later.
-Buying from a retailer that isn't the primary warrantor for the product you are buying is different than buying an expensive, durable good from a company who is the sole warrantor, supplier of spare parts, AND may not be in business later.
-Buying a heavily discounted computer, electronic good, or some smaller, semi-expensive good from a bankrupt company - even if they are the warrantor - entails much less risk and the warranty is usually much shorter (and the good is not really a true-blue durable good) and the overall life of the product is shorter than buying an expensive, loan-requiring vehicle with a 5-year (call it ~50% life warranty, if you count cars >100,000 miles and 7-10 years a 'thoroughly used' vehicle) warranty - especially if the company may not be around to honor the warranty later. Additionally, the cost of repairs on the smaller goods are not usually budget busters. Not so with cars.
Now we have an idea of what would happen if the US-3 went to Chapter 11.
-First, the panic.
-Second, a sharp drop in already severely depressed sales.
-If continued (highly likely), we would see the US domestic automotive volume drop to about 20% of current levels.
-This implies a necessary 80% reduction of capacity, including support staff, engineering, and assembly plants.
-This level of reduction for any one of the US-3 is very questionable for long term survival.
At this point, what do you think the workers across the US will think? How will suppliers of electronics, steel, glass, interior components, and tires react when their product orders drop to 20% of original demand? What about the potentially reduced or suspended debt payments to suppliers while GM/F/CX are reorganizing?
But the fun doesn't stop there. 80% loss in employment is no small task. Maybe 80% is too much? Overreacting?
Wait - the US-3 are pounded on because of their current situation - they have bloated labor and cost now for the number of vehicles they produce. Take away 80% of their volume - but for improved efficiency, technically, they would have to cut capacity and 'resize' to the anticipated future volume of product they intend to produce.
Do you REALLY think that they would return to the 45%-50% of market share they have now in a 11million vehicle market?
Personally, I doubt it. If they returned, smaller, reorganized to handle only 20% of an 11 million vehicle market, that's STILL a major reduction in capacity.
And an unthinkable number of people laid off. And a ton of people without health care. And the one thing we know is that we have no - ABSOLUTELY NO - idea how far these ripples will spread. Nor do we have a clue as to how long these effects may linger on the US and Global economy.
Alas - people don't like to think this far ahead. Long before the US-3 tried to emerge from Chapter 11, it wouldn't take the brains of an Arkansas senator to figure out that, once devestated, the US-3 are not recoverable.
THEN, you're talking Chapter 7. And it's certainly not a zero-probability.
Is it possible that the US-3 could make it through this in a Chapter 11 reorganization?
Sure, it's possible, but not very likely. The higher probability is that the reorganization would be so devestating that liquidation of assets and closing the doors and selling off the pieces - likely to Nissan/Renault, Toyota, the Chinese, etc. - is the more likely scenario. After a ton of pain.
The real truth of the matter is that GM/F/CX would have made it through this downturn if the US automotive market had remained at >13.5 million vehicles. And starting in 2010, the painful gains by all the cuts and plans and renegotiations over the last six years would have kicked in, and the US-3 would have been VERY strong.
So, digging into the cause, why did the US automotive market drop SO sharply in the last three months?
Here's a clue - it wasn't $4.00/gallon gas. Trucks - (I mean TRUCKS, not the toy trucks like Tacoma/Canyon/Ranger) were/are STILL selling well. Big azz SUVs, yes, took a downturn, but the real problem was the absolutely sudden unavailability of credit.
I have talked to friends & acquaintences throughout the country - some who work in or own dealerships, many who were potential customers. I also help people get connected if they need a Ford or GM friends/supplier discount. MANY sales, especially in the last two months and into November, have been absolutely lost because the potential buyers could not get ANY car loan. Not just a good car loan - I mean ANY car loan.
Anyone wonder why Toyota isn't pressing their 0% financing recently on commercials? It's because so many people can't qualify that potential customers are calling it 'bait and switch.'
It isn't because GM and Ford are building bad cars. Toyota and Honda dealerships suck too. These factors have not changed suddenly.
The US-3 were NOT to blame for the lack of credit. This was a creation of the compartmentalized markets, lack of foresight, and largely the responsibility of the FED and the Gov't to regulate. They certainly don't have a problem stepping in and regulating the automotive industry - why the reluctance to regulate many of the complex securities and grey markets?
If you STILL think it's $4.00/gallon gas - I'll tell you a secret: "you can get gas around the corner here in Michigan for $1.96/gallon - and if you pay cash you can get it for $1.85!". If that WAS the cause, then people should be lining up to buy ANY car now, not just big SUVs.
The questions now facing congress is simple:
Do you give the US-3 bailouts (call it bridge loans, a lifeline, whatever)?
What happens if you do not?
Furthermore, congress should consider if there is another, potentially BETTER time to force the autos to look at Chapter 11. Like maybe when the market recovers? Like maybe help them (and the banks) continue with a lifeline, until GDP shows growth and credit again becomes available, and the world isn't in a friggin' recession?
Don't we have enough uncertainty now? Forcing the US-3 into Chapter 11, replacing the management (is THIS a wise action? New blood in the middle of all of this?) and overseeing a reorganization?
Seriously?
GM and F, even if they were as bad as people want to believe they are, are actually darn good at producing vehicles. Do you REALLY want to government to determine how to build an industry?
Seriously?
And is this SERIOUSLY the right time to be posturing about where bailout money comes from? Face it - we're looking at potentially the worst retail Christmas season in ages, how about throwing in the uncertainty of the US-3 doing a little 'reorganizing' in the middle of this?
And how do you think most people are thinking about Christmas spending right now? Especially in light of the possibility that the company you work for may not be in a position to provide you with health care or a paycheck in a few months, because some idiots who don't get it in congress (who all have nicely paying, NON-middle class jobs with guilded gold health care available to them, I might add) are busy fiddling while the auto industries burn.
If/when Toyota or Honda faced similar situation - would the Japanese Gov't step in, or would they simply let them file for bankruptcy protection? Tell me they wouldn't... right.
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Last edited by Small Dealer : 11-19-2008 at 09:35 AM.
Circuit City - one of the most recent examples of a company going into Chapter 11. Turns out that it may not be possible to obtain financing to get them through reorganization. Latest expectations? Close the doors and proceed directly to Liquidation. Do not pass go, do not collect $2B.
Odd, one-off circumstance, right?
Nope.
Linens and Things. Filed for C-11 bankruptcy protection/reorganization in May. Closed a bunch of stores. Looked to find a buyer or someone to take over and continue operation. Guess what? Credit ain't what it used to be. Turns out than any candidate that wanted to buy the interest and continue to operate it couldn't get financing.
“If capital markets weren’t so tight, I think this chain might possibly have survived,” Mr. Schaye [one of the managers of the liquidation holding group] told Reuters. “There’s just no financing to do these deals at all.”
So, now it's liquidation. Close all the doors and sell the floorboards.
Hmmm. Maybe that's just a fluke...
Mervyns - filed C-11 in July. Began to attempt a reorganization, but liquidity drying up and the real estate collapse left little income to continue as a business model.
The list goes on... companies that start to try and reorganize in C-11, but end up liqudating. Sharper Image.
Bombay Company.
Well, the Auto industry is so big - it won't go to liquidation.
Yeah. People thought that about Lehman Brothers. You remember them? Now they're broken up, and liquidated.
Still think it can't happen to the autos? Still think Chapter 11 is an easy solution?
Think again.
Maybe in a better market where the entire global economy isn't in a recession, and where there might be some glimmer of hope to obtain financing to reorganize.
Maybe it would be much messier. If you want to see how messy, just do some research on Polaroid and the Polaroid Holding Company. What remains of Polaroid is a big empty administrative question mark. They filed for Chapter 11 back about a month after the 9/11 attacks.
I've been playfully accused in PM of being a fearmonger, and/or Peter DeLorenzo. No, I don't run autoextremist.com As to the accusation of being a fearmonger, I think rather that I am simply trying to get across the same point that the US-3 leaders are trying to get across. A bankruptcy in any of the US-3 is not an option for which any of us want to see the real results. It would be unbelievably painfull, unbelievably expensive (at first just in OH, and MI, but eventually the ripples will reach further than we can know right now) and have a VERY HEALTHY probability of failure in the end anyway.
Conversely - getting through this downturn and into 2010 means the survival of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of jobs. This was always the target - what the last 6 years have been all about - the reorganization and reinvention of the business model and the automobile into a formidable and vibrant industry.
The US automotive industry did not simply one day become low quality. This happened gradually - like gaining weight. They got complacent. It is not possible to simply and instantaneously turn around a problem that was 2 decades or more in the making.
The analogy I think of is this:
One day, in middle age, you realize that you're obese. You know you run a higher risk of stroke, heart disease, and diabetes... but it takes some time before you decide to do something about it.
Maybe it's the realization one day that you actually do have Type 2 Diabetes. The insulin shots become a pain... but this is a signal. You decide to get working on your fitness... you begin to work out, eat healthier.
Over time, you find yourself getting healthier. You are on target to being close to your ideal weight in a a year or so... but then...
...you have a sick feeling and your left arm goes numb while raking leaves... you are short of breath... you are having a heart attack.
In retrospect - you shouldn't have gotten so fat. You'd give anything to have started to get healthier sooner, but that's water under the bridge. People still see you as that unhealthy person you were a couple years before... but you know you've made significant strides.
In the hospital, you have to beg for treatment. The doctors tell you that they hear you eat lots of fatty foods, you're still obviously overweight (they haven't really seen you before, they don't know you've already dropped 45 pounds in the last 2 years), and you have type 2 diabetes.
"Let him die" says one doctor. "He'll only be back for more treatment - look at how unhealthy he is... why should we waste money on treating him? He obviously never took advice from his doctor for so many years..."
"But - I've gotten so much better!" you plead. "I eat healthy now, I've lost LOTS of weight, and I just need some immediate treatment now... "
The doctor says, "no, you really need to eat healtier and work out more. You're really overweight. Everyone I've talked to says you've been doing this for years, against many warnings."
Your chest is on fire, you are having trouble breathing.
The doc shakes his head, "no, I don't think you deserve any aid..."
Circuit City - one of the most recent examples of a company going into Chapter 11. Turns out that it may not be possible to obtain financing to get them through reorganization. Latest expectations? Close the doors and proceed directly to Liquidation. Do not pass go, do not collect $2B.
Retailer Circuit City, for example, which recently filed for bankruptcy, successfully negotiated a $1.1 billion debtor-in-possession loan to keep stores open as it restructures. Lenders who provide debtor-in-possession financing to a bankrupt firm have priority over other creditors.
__________________
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Ventureshield protection http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=28179
GM Stage II turbo upgrade
KW V3 coilovers with aggressive street alignment
DDM extreme backbone and probeam
And here is a kick to nuts of Ontario taxpayers......
The province of Ontario has allowed GM Canada to not meets its pension funding obligations since the 90's. The only company in the province permitted to do that. If GM goes under the province is liable for the shortcome and will have to pay much of the difference (because there is a provincial Pension Benefits Guarantee Fund). Before the stockmarket crash the GM Canada pension shotrfall was already $4.5 billion. From the article below.
How about this.... It sounds too stupid to be true, but....
Quote:
The CEOs of the Big Three automakers reportedly flew private luxury jets to Washington to plead for a $25 billion taxpayer bailout to save their debt-ridden industry — ringing up tens of thousands in charges even as they cried poverty.
Recipients of eight-figure bonuses in 2007, the corporate cowboys used their executive perks — which for GM's Rick Wagoner include the run of a $36 million Gulfstream IV jet — to arrive in style as they went begging before Congress.
Wagoner, whose flight reportedly cost $20,000 round-trip — about 70 times more than a commercial airline ticket — told Congress he expected about $10-$12 billion from the requested bailout.
__________________
07 GXP - Power rules. Red, manual (naturally), everything but onstar / smokers pkg
Ventureshield protection http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=28179
GM Stage II turbo upgrade
KW V3 coilovers with aggressive street alignment
DDM extreme backbone and probeam
Register and send a letter to your state senator or representative. This was sent to all GM employees over the last couple of days.
Remember this is a LOAN, not a bailout. The media is confusing that.
Now just a couple of my own two cents.... As a friend to many in the detriot area working for the big three or tier one companies, this greatly effects many people that I care dearly about.
We need the Car companies to stay in good standing due to the fact that 1 in every 100 workers directly works for one of the Big Three, and respectively about 28%-33% of all the United States work force would be indirectly affected. If we don't support them now, How much worse will it be three months from now?
I agree that the GM corporate structure needs some life pumped into it, and a progressive leader, wait maybe just a good marketing team...... Unfortunately, people don't believe that a Domestic car can get better gas mileage that a Foreign car, which is a myth, but has been ingrained in the public opinion. We need more fresh ideas, inspiration (what about an electric solstice..Tesla??) and less governmental restrictions. Fortunately, GM does have plans to bring over many European cars Opels, etc. But I fear that it will cost more than its worth in the long run.
And one more note for all anyone that thinks the prius kicks ass. While being a great vehicle, and "better for the environment" ELECTRIC VEHICLES in general all have these two major flaws, besides the fact that they look like a bubble. In order for these vehicles to be successful these two things need to be resolved.
1. The amount of energy necessary to create the batteries for the vehicles is more than to produce a Hummer. Granted over the life of the vehicle it makes up for it. (see WIRED magazine, I think September issue, Bright orange cover)
2. The CAR companies have not created a substantial recycling program for the used batteries which only last 5-7 years. What are we going to do dig a big hole in the dessert and bury them? or send them to outer space?
Enough rambling for one night. Please visit the site and take some action!
Hello, well the perception is not very good. Look at it from another viewpoint, They all ready own the plane, they already have paid the flight crew as there employees of GM. From Detroit to DC is about a three hour flight time commmercial with security checks and check in now you have 6hrs now add the delays that always come up and you may have a 8hr flight. Rick Wagner CEO makes how much per hour, add those wasted hours on top also his private jet can fly higher and faster so his flight time is now less than 3 hrs. So adding these and etc expenses such as anyone who came with him that he may need, his private jet may well have cost less than commercial. Just a thought.
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What remains of Polaroid is a big empty administrative question mark. They filed for Chapter 11 back about a month after the 9/11 attacks.
As to the accusation of being a fearmonger, I think rather that I am simply trying to get across the same point that the US-3 leaders are trying to get across. A bankruptcy in any of the US-3 is not an option for which any of us want to see the real results. It would be unbelievably painfull, unbelievably expensive (at first just in OH, and MI, but eventually the ripples will reach further than we can know right now) and have a VERY HEALTHY probability of failure in the end anyway.
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