How much should I pay for a Solstice now?

[sara2008]

I want a new/leftover 2008 base Solstice (not GXP or 2009 in order to save some money).

Since Ponitac will no longer be around by the end of next year doesn't that mean I should be able to get a better deal now?

TMV (true market value) right now is 17 something (almost 18) for a 2008. How much should this be altered to take into account the new announcement that Pontiac is getting shutdown?

Feedback would be much appreciated!!!

Thanks!

[BIO Hazard]

In my honest opinion... Mondays announcement is not going to "lower" the value at this point. Likewise its not going to turn the car into an instant collector's classic or worth more either.

The current Solstice design was always intended to be a 5 Year production run only. All yesterday's announcement did is shave off 9 to 12 months of production thats it.

Here are some factors that would lower the value:

- If GM were to announce that they would no longer honor the warranty.

- If GM announced that it would immediately cease/end all parts production for the Solstice.

- If GM was to go through Chapter 7 Bankruptcy and completely fail. (Most people forget that not all bankruptcy types are the same)

All of the above would totally change the game and value of the Solstice.

With that said being a good shopper, negotiator, and knowlegeable consumer will go along way here. Some advice, I would not rule out any 2007 - 2009 BASE/NA model or a GXP either. I would also not rule out a preowned, low mileage car. Why?

Here are three examples:

- A dealership in the Philly area had a 2009 Solstice NA/BASE with 411 miles on it... Completely loaded for an NA model... Price? $16,900 thats awesome...

- There was a 2008 GXP with 750 miles on it for sale here on the FORUM's CLASSIFIEDS. Owner from TEXAS. He was willing to part with it for what the dealer offered in trade which was $19,000. That is a STEAL!!!!

-There was a professionally customed SKY on this FORUMS CLASSIFIEDS. The owner was from Illinois and the car had very low mileage. Original investment in the car was close to $45,000 (or more). Last check it the highest bid on EBAY was $21,000.

There are deals & steals on the lots but there are also very motivated private sellers now due to this horrible economy we find ourselves in. Things are bad now but they will not stay that way forever.

Bottomline....

- Set your budget and a price you are willing to spend.

- Then begin your search on the web by surfing for the vehicle you want (lots of great websites including the classifieds here on this forum).

- Finally, and most importantly, be ready to act immediately. Steals are out there to be had both from private parties and dealerships. If its a great deal someone is bound to pounce on it. Be careful though, make sure to CARFAX or get a vehicle history on anything you are looking to buy. Lots of cars out there that were in floods, suffered hail damage, or were involved in an accident so be careful.

Good luck finding your SOL (or Sky for that matter)

[sara2008]

Thanks for your advice!

Where did you get the information on the 2009 fully loaded base model with 411 miles on it in Philly that went for $16,900? That IS awesome. But it seems too good to be true, or at least an exception and not the rule. If I told a dealer about that I am pretty sure they would definitely just laugh and not believe it.
Sure I would love a 2009 instead of a 2008 for the "same" price, but how is that going to happen?

So if I could get either a 2008 or 2009 base model, automatic trans for $17,000 I think that would be do-able for me. It still seems kind of arbitrary because there should obviously be a difference in price between 2008 and 2009, but according to your example there doesn't really have to be?

Also, regardless, the announcement is still bad news for car sales because it could turn off lots of borderline customers from buying. Keep in mind that a dealer emailed me right after the announcement telling me that they have several Solstices and encouraging me to buy/come in.

Thanks again!

[Snugglebear]

Just a couple comments - used prices on Solstices are very depressed right now along with many other cars. If you find a unit with low miles that has been titled, it will be pretty cheap. New car prices still are fairly high unless the dealer is getting desperate to move it off the lot. Those prices will have to come down as inventory is still backed up all over the lots. Not only that, but as I just mentioned about used prices, the depreciation is very steep right now. Making things even worse was the killing of Pontiac, as that now means your car will depreciate far faster than if Pontiac was still around. Dealers can try to keep you closer to MSRP, but the simple reality is that MSRP is way too high, invoice is way too high, and you'll lose about half the new purchase price on depreciation in the next two years even if the economy turns around. What it boils down to is that this is not an investment car - buy it because you want one and can hold on to it, do not if you need to cash out in the next few years and expect to get something for it.

[RSol]

part of the answer depends on how particular you are, as far as color and options.
if you are willing to take just about any car off a dealer's lot, they would probably be willing to negotiate more. I got myself determined to get a specific color, option list, and trans selection which turned up about 2 cars in the entire eastern half of the US.

[BANDITCAR]

Yeah, why is it that it seems a manual transmission is rare to find?

I know part must be that when dealers order cars for their lots they pretty much get them loaded because that is what they think people want and since Auto trans is an option they check it off.

As for the OP question, you might also want to consider base differences you are getting between the 2008 and 2009. Limited Slip Differential as well as Traction Control were added as Standard equipment to 2009 Base models. So be sure when comparing the two years that you take those options into consideration.

[BIO Hazard]

Where did you get the information on the 2009 fully loaded base model with 411 miles on it in Philly that went for $16,900?

Being an active member on this website and participating the the discussions is where I learned about this car.

Here are the details on the one that was on the lot at Chapman's NE Ford/Lincoln/Mercury in Philadelphia PA:

2009 Solstice NA

Mileage 414
Body Style Convertible
Exterior Color Blue
Interior Color Tan
Engine 4 Cylinder Gasoline
Transmission 5 Speed Automatic
Drive Type 2 wheel drive - rear
Fuel Type Gasoline
Doors Two Door
Stock No. 10388A
VIN 1G2MN35B99Y100826


Installed Options
Anti Theft Device
OnStar Communications System
Power Driver Seat
Vanity Mirror(s)
Tire Pressure Monitor
Vehicle Stability Assist System
Daytime Running Lights
Driver Air Bag
Anti-Lock Brakes
Air Conditioning
Alloy Wheels
Adjustable Headrests
Front Bucket Seat(s)
Remote Stereo Controls
Bucket Seats
Cruise Control
CD Player
Console
Passenger Air Bag
Rear Window Defroster
Temperature Gauge
Radial Tires
Trip Odometer
Tachometer
Interval Wipers
Rear Defroster
Reclining Seat(s)
Auto Headlight Delay
Center Console
Dual Air Bags

To me that list indicates a fully loaded 09 BASE NA SOL.....

That IS awesome. But it seems too good to be true, or at least an exception and not the rule.

The story from the dealer on the previous onwer is that he traded in the car because he had lost his job. He had two cars with two payments and could not afford them both. So he traded both cars in for one practical car at this dealership. That is what happens in a "depressed" economy or recession.

According to CARFAX they sold it in March. Last time I saw it their site the price was $16,900. Thats what I mean about having to move on it when you find what you want. Good deals are to be had but you have to put work into finding them.

Sure I would love a 2009 instead of a 2008 for the "same" price, but how is that going to happen?

Ummm its called shopping around, using the web to do your homework, and negotiating your best deal. That is what a good consumer does. Pick up the printed classifieds in your area, search EBAY, the classified listings here & autotrader.com for the car you want at the price you can afford. Use CARFAX and this forum to get answers to your questions. Finally negotiate your best price. Its not easy and its going to take time and effort on your part. After all.. no one is going to do it for you

Also, regardless, the announcement is still bad news for car sales because it could turn off lots of borderline customers from buying.

"COULD", "IF", & "WOULD" are funny words to me... Reminds me of something a Marine buddy shared with me that his GUNNY used to say. Can't share that here because this is a family atmosphere.

Yes you are right, Monday's news from GM "COULD" have scared off people who were on the fence. Life is full of "WHAT IFS" and "COULDS".... "COULD" GM eventually be gone forever? "IF" that were to take place, what "WOULD" happen then?

Hard to say and even more difficult to live by. I will say this... Nothing will help sales of a Sky or Solstice like warmer weather. Now that warmer weather is finally here, the number of good Solstice deals are going to disappear quickly regardless of this weeks news..

You are looking for the prices to fall or drop more right now as if what GM stated on Monday was all some sort of giant surprise or shock and that no one saw coming... Monday's news wasn't a complete shocker for anyone following automotive news, GM as a Manufacturer, Pontiac as a brand, people working at GM dealerships, or those of us who have been on this forum for awhile.

From its inception, we all knew that the Sky & Solstice were built with the understanding that they would be a 5 year limited run. There were a number of us hoping that if Sky & Solstice sales were stong enough, or GM was making enough money, they would decide to continue it beyond the 5 years. Sadly that has not happened.

In late 2008 the economy started to rapidly slide into a recession. The writing was on the wall and the potential for what happened on Monday could happen. We have all been speculating on it ever since. You have to understand a few months ago GM already dropped the Pontiac to a "Niche" brand status. All that happened on Monday was GM officially changed PONTIAC to gone and the Solstice status to "Discontinued".

Snugglebear is spot on right. The recession, job losses, and bad economy already had Solstice values severely depressed since the first of the year. Monday's news may impact prices slightly but they are already way down to begin with.

Could things get even worse for GM... Yes. They could end up completely shutting down. It is a possibility that everyone is aware could happen. Let's all hope and pray it doesn't.

Keep in mind that a dealer emailed me right after the announcement telling me that they have several Solstices and encouraging me to buy/come in.

This one is simple... I can guarantee you would have heard from the dealer one way or the other this week regardless of the news from GM... Why? Simple... We are in the final days of the month of April. All dealers are motivated to move cars at months end to hit numbers.

Good luck to you. Please be sure to let us know what you do. I for one like to know what you end up with regardless if it was a Solstice, Sky, or something entirely different.

[Snugglebear]

Don't forget that the dealers are in a fight for survival as well. While I don't expect too many more to go belly-up from lack of financing or sales (the herd is fairly thin at present), now it's the OEM who wants to cut them by almost half. How will they be picked for elimination? Probably something based on geography, quality metrics, and sales performance. That means many if not most will be motivated to turn over more units to keep themselves from the chopping block. But the fundamental rules still apply and they cannot sell every car at a loss.

In short, see what you can get and if you really want the car, go for it. I find myself in a similar situation looking for a Wicked GXP, new, so I can use up GM credits. While still torn about automatic vs. manual, I'm actually waiting for the beginning of May. My bet is that GM will have better incentives next month since the bankruptcy deadline is fast approaching. Hopefully they take a look at the sales figures, realize the stock of Solstices in California have been sitting for 6 months to a year, and add a real incentive instead of this $500 customer cash pittance. Even still I'm not sure I want to pay more than $29,999 (12% under MSRP, about even with invoice), both out of principle and the fact that I will be taking a massive depreciation hit in the next couple years.

[Small Dealer]

Originally Posted by Snugglebear ...., I'm actually waiting for the beginning of May. My bet is that GM will have better incentives next month since the bankruptcy deadline is fast approaching.

Think you will find the overall incentive picture for May will be lower than April. That would not be a good sign for those holding out for larger Solstice incentives.

Secondly, for deliveries after May 7th, any rebate amount would be due to be paid to the dealership after the potential bankruptcy date of June 1st. So you may find dealerships don't even want to sell a car.

Originally Posted by Snugglebear Even still I'm not sure I want to pay more than $29,999 (12% under MSRP, about even with invoice),.......

So no one is mislead, 12% under MSRP would be about 9% under most dealership invoice costs, not about even.

[Snugglebear]

Across all brands, yes, I would expect lower incentives. However, I also expect them to try to move some of the units that have been sitting for a while and those that have been largely ignored by previous incentives (e.g. the Solstice). My best educated guess is that some form of low interest financing will be the driver. The dealers are playing the same game the customers are - do you wait or go for it now? If GM files that's a big writedown on inventory and scarlet letter to boot.

EDIT: Forgot to add before I ran off for a minute - the various pricing engines I've looked at recently and the couple of dealers I've talked to have stated the real cost of the car to the dealer is still below invoice. The systems are convoluted, certainly.

[RSol]

Originally Posted by Brazen Orange <snip the list> To me that list indicates a fully loaded 09 BASE NA SOL..... . . .

as a noob far be it for me to argue - and I'm writing this from memory - but I see only two options in that list. there are three option packages that add stuff like fog lights, power mirrors, body color mirrors, leather seating, etc. I don't see any of those items. stand-alone options include sound system upgrade, speaker upgrade, and polished or chrome wheels. assuming 'alloy' wheels means the painted ones, the only thing added to the base car are a/c and auto trans. and at the risk of offending someone, I think blue with tan top is a hard sell. JMHO.

[BIO Hazard]

Originally Posted by RSol assuming 'alloy' wheels means the painted ones, the only thing added to the base car are a/c and auto trans. and at the risk of offending someone, I think blue with tan top is a hard sell. JMHO.

Car color was DEEP Blue. The top was black not tan. Tan referred to the tan interior package with leather seating. The wheels on the pictures appeared to be chrome and the car also had the foglights. I cant recall which stereo the car actually had.

You have to forgive the list. The car was at a FORD dealership. They obviously did not realize what they had.

[RSol]

Originally Posted by Brazen Orange Car color was DEEP Blue. The top was black not tan. Tan referred to the tan interior package with leather seating. The wheels on the pictures appeared to be chrome and the car also had the foglights. I cant recall which stereo the car actually had. You have to forgive the list. The car was at a FORD dealership. They obviously did not realize what they had.

okay, that makes more sense. that list did not look like what I kept seeing in my searches. next guess is something wrong with the car; why would a 'new' Pontiac have 400 miles and be at a Ford dealer? again not trying to argue the fine points but that 17k figure cannot be anything like typical. at least for my sake I hope not.

[Snugglebear]

Perhaps the owner of the Ford dealer has or used to have a Pontiac franchise? Perhaps they bought it at auction from a Pontiac dealer going out of business?

[BIO Hazard]

My reaction about this car was much the same as yours. Why would a 2009 Solstice with 411 miles on it as nicely equipped as this one was be going for $16,900?

My original thought was the car had been in an accident or had suffered some sort of other damage... IE hail, flood, or some other type of storm damage.

Here is what I know and what was said:

- Original owner lost his job.

- It was traded in at the Ford Dealership that was selling it.

- Guy had two cars and both had payments. He traded two cars in for one.

- The car had been originally listed on the lot for $21,900 and because it wasnt selling the dealership started to drop the price until it sold.

Some possibilities to explain the price:

- The economy. Lets face it, this is the number one suspect

- The snow was still flying which is not exactly 2 seater RWD Convertible weather.

- Dealership made out on the trade they made and had room to move and still make a profit. Lets face it, the guy was desparate because he had lost his job which made him ripe pickings.

- Dealer just wanted to move the car themselves

- Previously damaged (although the guy looking at it had a mechanic and bodyman look at it and swears there was none).

I have heard Solstice values are depressed. Some have stated that 2006 to 2008 NAs are going as low as 13000 to 15000 and 2006 to 2008 GXPs are going at 17000 to 19000. Those are some real sad numbers.

Back to the original point I was trying to make to Sara... There are deals on these cars to be had. You just have to track them down and do your homework.