I would dare speculate that the Volt would be very unreliable in northern climates without a internal combustion engine to supply alternative direct power. With temperatures below 20 degrees, I highly doubt that you will ever even get close to the 40 mile range GM is advertising from the li-on batteries. IMO GM is building the Volt to satisfy the EPA and eventually CO2 Kyoto limitations with it's claimed zero CO2 emissions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhammon
Well.. that's where the Volt has an advantage. A hybrid like the cars you speak of will only marginally be better than a ICE only vehicle (I get 33 MPG @ 80 MPH in my Cobalt everyday). The Volt can get 3x that performance... so if oil drops to $50 a barrel, the Volt still has a return on the investment that the Civic / Accord Hybrids and the other dual systems out there loose out as they REQUIRE gasoline to operate. The Volt requires ZERO gasoline to operate within the all electric distance. Granted that distance limitation doesn't cover me.. I don't fall within that 78% of folks who drive 40 miles or less per day.
Location: Rosamond, CA - Home of Willow Springs Raceway
Quote:
I would dare speculate that the Volt would be very unreliable in northern climates without a internal combustion engine to supply alternative direct power.
I would have to agree although I think GM stated that the gas engine would run until the batteries warm up.
__________________
2007 Cool GXP with Darkside Top, 5 spd, Ebony Cloth, Monsoon with Single CD, Sport Pedals, XM, A/C
Mods - Solo Street/Race Exhaust, K&N Drop-in Air Filter, EDAL
I would have to agree although I think GM stated that the gas engine would run until the batteries warm up.
I don't think the Volt acts as a parallel hybrid, it's a series hybrid. In other words, I don't think it will run on the ICE alone. The ICE turns the generator that charges the batteries.
__________________ 2007 Deep GXP - M5, Loaded w/o OnStar
Mods: JPM Custom Shifter - Stubby Ant - WindRestrictor - Dejon TB Elbow - Dejon BOV Spring - JPM Center Console - JPM Visor Covers - Wester's Tune
Future Mods: delayed due to European Vacation!! NASSOA Founding Member
Location: here or there, depending on one's perspective
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhammon
Not sure what your involvement with the auto industry is, but you often speak as if you have some good insight...
With that said, I'll respectively disagree... I would say GM has much more than a few months head start. Granted I certainly don't follow Audi's development (only worked with them on a few projects and have no good contacts that I keep in touch with currently), but I have a good knowledge of where the Volt stands, testing that has been done, is being done, as well as the timing plans internally to pull this off.
I'll say GM has the ability to pull this off, on time (Nov. 2010), and with the business decisions I've seen made... well, there's a commitment. Anyone who questions that, should ask why the C7 has been canceled and the Volt is moving on if they don't believe there is commitment to the highest levels of the company. Heck... just about every single person working on the Volt program has been hand picked / recommended by their supervisor and many in critical areas (either critical to the cars success or critical by timing) have had most / all of their other responsibilities handed off so they can focus on the Volt.
While I wish I could openly comment on everything I am aware of.. I can say GM is ahead of where they would be on a normal car launch at this time, and things are every bit accelerated.
I'm just not sure Audi or any of the others out there (Chrysler) are this far along... and that the difference is much closer to a full year, if not slightly more. As I said, I follow GM much closer than other OEM's, so I could be wrong... but for GM, this car is *the* car they are working on and it seems to show. I hope for all of us that the other OEM's are closer.. nothing wrong with competition.
Sorry about the delay in getting back on this. Yesterday I thought I had the time to reply and then a project landed on me. The short answer is that my involvement in the auto industry is purely non-professional. There are relatives of mine who were GM lifers but that's as close as it gets to actual employment. My day job is software engineering and database analytics in the realm of healthcare, so most of the time I'm either fixing software, writing software, re-engineering processes, or running statistics on health and financial data. However, this is not enough to keep me from being bored, so I spend a lot of time keeping up on all sorts of technology matters, law, finance, politics, and so on.
Understand that I grew up with, and eventually went to school with guys who are now robotics engineers, other software engineers, lawyers, and electrical engineers. I would have been an EE if it wasn't a fake 4-year degree (i.e. it's really 6). The thing you should be seeing here is that I don't actively work on cars nor do I want to. However, I helped a lot of guys write software for their toys, race their toys (good friend of mine was auto-x with RX3s & Subies), and spent a lot of long hours working on systems with them. It is just my nature to build, take things apart, redesign systems, and so on.
All that being said, I don't know if GM will be successful with the Volt or not. I still will actively criticize their business plan for it as that's a discipline I'm familiar with, as I will criticize the aesthetics of the car. Business plans can be read easily by looking at SEC documents and analyzing what the executives and marketing folks are saying. Finance is really easy since GM is publicly traded. Likewise, it's not hard to find out how much large LIon battery packs cost as Toyota doesn't keep it very secret and there aren't a whole lot of places to get them from. The technology is rather murky since they've got the cards against their chest on this one. However, if you know something about the components that go into a PEV you can figure out what the overall system is going to look like in the end. But like I said before, the devil is in the details. 1.4L engines are easy to build and reliable. Electric motors are easy to build, reliable, and efficient. Car chassis are nothing new, either. What is new, though, is the level of systems integration GM is proposing along with their new battery pack. The latter we can compare to existing batteries to get a feel for, but the former, well, that's what we'll have to wait a couple years to really evaluate. Finally, quality is something that won't be apparent until well after release and is a big variable.
What GM has done is necessary. They need to find new drive trains that are more efficient as, frankly, even if oil does drop to $50 bbl, the world production capacity still lags demand in a booming economy. The dollar can only rise so much to insulate us and economies eventually rebound. With the world population ever increasing and 3rd world countries modernizing, energy supply and use will be probably the key problem in my lifetime. Car companies must figure out how to make electric cars, figure out what the public expects from them, what the public needs, and tailor them to the market. This must happen sooner than later. GM knows this and is betting the farm on it. Audi, VW, BMW, Toyota, Chrysler, Honda, et. al, are all aware of this too, but haven't gone to the same lengths to forge ahead... yet. As of right now, with my own experience in systems integration, I'm not too confident in GM's ability to make the Volt do all they promise (e.g. the GPS-aided energy management system). I am fairly certain, though, that they can make the Volt work. It just might not do all they want it to, it might be buggy for a while, and the first few MYs may have battery life issues out at 5-6 years while the battery tech matures. These are things that concern me as they can burn your customers and your image very quickly; if Audi rolls out their new car a year or two later, for less, and it's perceived as better, how will GM fight back?
Whew, after that long-winded post I have just one question - is the Volt's battery being subbed out to a parts manufacturer or is it being developed and, eventually, produced in house?
Location: Rosamond, CA - Home of Willow Springs Raceway
Quote:
Whew, after that long-winded post I have just one question - is the Volt's battery being subbed out to a parts manufacturer or is it being developed and, eventually, produced in house?
It's either A123 or Continental, if I'm not mistaken.
__________________
2007 Cool GXP with Darkside Top, 5 spd, Ebony Cloth, Monsoon with Single CD, Sport Pedals, XM, A/C
Mods - Solo Street/Race Exhaust, K&N Drop-in Air Filter, EDAL
Location: Rosamond, CA - Home of Willow Springs Raceway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose GXP
I don't think the Volt acts as a parallel hybrid, it's a series hybrid. In other words, I don't think it will run on the ICE alone. The ICE turns the generator that charges the batteries.
I don't think the batteries are non-op during that process but I don't think they'll get a full charge either.
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2007 Cool GXP with Darkside Top, 5 spd, Ebony Cloth, Monsoon with Single CD, Sport Pedals, XM, A/C
Mods - Solo Street/Race Exhaust, K&N Drop-in Air Filter, EDAL
From GM-Volt, some great info here: After the Volt unveiling the Toronto Star had a fruitful Q& A with GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz.
Lutz told reporters that because things have gone so well, the Volt is actually ahead of schedule. He indicated that he was now 99.9% sure the Volt will be a success, and that as a result it will have a transformational effect on the public’s perception of GM’s technological and environmental prowess.
He also discussed issues being worked out for apartment dwellers, and noted one idea would be to persuade garage owners to set aside an area for car charging and discussed the way public chargers would have to be designed so thieves couldn’t steal power. The charger would have a sliding door that locks the cord in place, opening only when a credit card was swiped.
He also publicly confirmed that GM will unveil the Volt’s photovoltaic roof option at the Detroit Auto Show in January. The roof, he said, will be able to charge the battery from 1/4 to 1/3 over 3 hot blazing days of sun, such as in an airport parking lot, and could function keep the A/C on when parked on hot summer days, avoiding battery draw to cool up the car when the driver gets in.
Lutz also denied present plans to put E-Flex into other vehicles yet, although he remains excited at the prospects for doing so.
Lutz also describes the Volt’s cold-weather algorithm. If the driver turns on the car when its too cold for the battery to properly function, the ICE will go on automatically to condition the battery before shutting off and going to electric drive.
Source (Toronto Star )
Sounds awesome.
__________________
2008 Black/Black GXP, purchased 7/23 right off the train.
Mod#1 blacked-out headlights
Mod#2 GMPP Intake -I like to hear my turbo.
Mod#3 Special Sauce
Mod#4 Solo Street Race
'97 Burb.
"07 Charger R/T, Mama's car
Race #1 Charger 0 /Sol 1
I have heard that a possible problem is battery fires, remember cell phone and laptop fires using the same type of batterys.
Dont charge this car in your garage.
Location: here or there, depending on one's perspective
Quote:
Originally Posted by GENESIS
I have heard that a possible problem is battery fires, remember cell phone and laptop fires using the same type of batterys.
Dont charge this car in your garage.
LIons can catch fire if they overheat, and this is quite a bit of excess heat we're talking about. A car, fortunately, is a lot more complex and larger than your average cell phone or laptop. Just adding a few thermal diodes around the battery pack and linking them to an emergency disconnect would do the job. GM could really shine with some systems integration here.
Also, as I mentioned a while back, the LIons that caught fire in consumer electronics were knock-offs that were rebadged by some shady companies and sold as brand-name units. One would imagine that an OEM like GM would have sufficient audits and controls over their supply chain to prevent fakes or bad parts from entering.
Where do you think GM is going to purchase batterys from?? The fire danger is very real.
charge range 40 miles.
cost for now 40K
I think I will stick with NG for a fuel for the future.
Where do you think GM is going to purchase batterys from?? The fire danger is very real.
charge range 40 miles.
cost for now 40K
I think I will stick with LP for a fuel for the future.
Are you serious, you better hurry and notify GM that their batteries might catch on fire!
It's time to get your self edumacated, here's the American company that is manufacturing the Volt's Nanophosphate pack:
__________________
2008 Black/Black GXP, purchased 7/23 right off the train.
Mod#1 blacked-out headlights
Mod#2 GMPP Intake -I like to hear my turbo.
Mod#3 Special Sauce
Mod#4 Solo Street Race
'97 Burb.
"07 Charger R/T, Mama's car
Race #1 Charger 0 /Sol 1
