no fuel cells in this just lipo batteries and a gen. fuel cell cars are still in the millions$
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2008 GXP
Auto, Air, Mud Gaurds
1971 z28
open chambered large D port .30 over BB
Six speed ROD
cold air hood
Eaton posi 12 bolt
44gallon Fuel Tank
It's the same old bloated toad look that most cars follow these days. Cars, except for ones like ours, of course. I remember the good old days, when you could easily tell one make from another. That's why so many cars, even 60s and 70s models, sell so high at the auctions. Hold on to your GXPS, good mileage, unique styling, and reasonably priced!
Now Tesla has the right idea. A hot sports car that happens to be electric. Can't wait to see what they do for the masses. With our designer, Franz, should be interesting.
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'07 GXP - Loaded 3/19/2007 - 5 Speed auto
Black - Charcoal Leather red stitching- LSD - Monsoon - MP3 - OnStar - XM - A/C - ABS - Cruise - 5 Speed Auto- Fog lamps - GXP Floormats - Chrome wheels - Sport pedals
"Original Sol" 2006 2.4 - 5 speed manual
Black - Sand/Steel leather - ABS - A/C - Power windows/locks - Magnaflow exhaust - GMPP CAI - Vector ECM tune - Delivered Oct '05 - Said goodbye Mar '07 - It was a hell of great ride!
Location: Wilds of Canada, or the Pac NW, or the Upper Penninsula of MI...
If you look at the proportions of the original showcar Volt, it looks closer to a Kappa-based car than any FWD car. Look at the long, nearly horizontal hood, bubble type short cockpit, ending in a rounded rear.
That shape nearly guarantees a Solstice-like coefficient of drag. I wonder if GM actually ever mentioned what the drag coefficient of the showcar was, but I bet it wasn't far off from the 0.45 of a Solstice.
That's fine for a sports car, but absolutely unacceptable for a vehicle whose main focus is on efficiency. The only way to improve the CdA of a car is to change the Cd (what they did with the Volt) or reduce the A (or use a platform with a small frontal area - the Tesla uses approximately a Lotus Elise, about 1.5m^2 and CdA of about 0.60m^2 - which works back to a Cd of maybe 0.40).
The CdA is the important feature. The Elise is a 2-seat car (Tesla). The Volt was intended to be as functional as a Prius/Civic. 4+ passengers.
The other part of efficiency is mass or weight. The Tesla is tiny - ergo it can only weigh so much. Bigger the car, the more it weighs. The volt was/is pretty darn big.
Problem is they sold both the concept (e-flex and electric primary drive, plug-in, etc.) AND the styling. That's what happens when you let designers have full reign.
Look no further than some of the features on our own Solstices and SKYs for compromises made strictly to appease design. Does it accomodate a roll cage? Can you see the fuel gage? Can you easily operate all controls like window switches? Can you operate the top from the driver's seat?
All of these can be tracked back to a decision that was made by a designer - a stylist - defended to the end. That's where you get the worlds most complicated convertible roof and an incredibly heavy decklid and hood.
I agree the Volt needs to be made - it is the future of propulsion technology. Someday in the future (hopefully near future) traction motors will be the primary mode of driving the wheels, and electricity will be the medium of energy flow in a vehicle. I just wish they hadn't made the promises (said or unsaid) of what it would look like.
They should have had a car skeleton showcasing all of the things that will make it work - and then worked like dogs to make such a car look
a) DIFFERENT from a prius and
b) irresistably attractive.
If I can get ahold of one, I will likely buy a Volt - regardless of what it looks like. It will be the first major-league mass produced modern car with active handling that uses an electric motor for propulsion - and not just any run-of-the-mill motor, we're talking 3 phase high torque AC motor. It's not a 'lease', it's an OWN. Once the warranty is done, out goes the engine/generator, in goes whatever is the latest technology electrical energy storage system available.
... hmmm... now I wonder if that motor can be made to fit in a Solstice...
Yes it is different from the concept car, but so what?
The vehicle is good looking, I agree with most, that it ressembles a civic, and I always thought the civic looked good.
Also, the way to look at this vehicle is not whether or not it looks like the concept, but rather if it will be the easiest vehicle on the eyes in 2010 than can go 40 miles on electric power......now that is cool.....
Can't predict the future, but with what I know is out there today in terms of hybrid, I think this is one of the best looking electric related vehicle out there today, period.
The point is not that GM changed the look from the concept car, but rather that GM is bringing fuel cell/hybrid technology that can go 40 miles on electric power in 2010. No other American auto manufacturer can do that. You all should be proud, people chill out, and give GM a chance, the portfolio is amazing, the quality is improving every year, the technology is up there.....give it a chance.
Looks are subjective, and I think the consensus will be down the road that the Volt is subjectively speaking in the same ugly vein as the Prius or Honda Insight. More Volts would be sold at its release if they looked less controversial and more like the original concept,. The fact that many in this thread have spoken up about the disappointment and the fact that the list of folks who were on waiting lists is declining (GMs own admission) tells me that GM watered a hot concept down and are now gonna feel the ramifications of that. Look, these are troubling times for our economy, for our automanufacturers. and for consumers. To sell a generic, IMHO, FUGLY vehicle when the concept garnered such fanfare and media hype over its looks and its non-mainstream appeal to even hard core autophiles, says a lot about GM and their direction. Count me out, I ain't buyin and I had money stored away to buy this Volt too.
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Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
I guess I am in the minority, I like it as a DD.
That leaves the other toys for the weekend and other special times.
__________________ Aggressive GXP at $25,995.00 shipping of $600, Manual Transmission.
Options:
Air, $960; Chrome Wheels, $545; PCQ, Premium Package (Leather), $525; Radio, 6-Disc with MP3, $495; Monsoon, $395; Premium Acoustic Headliner, $150; and Sport Metallic Pedals, $115; all totals $29,180.00. No XM/OnStar and NO Spoiler. MODS (RKSport/Magnaflow dual exit exhaust system, K&N filter, Ventureshield.
First 1000. Aggressive with everything, NO XM/OnStar. SOLD
~~~~~~~ NASSOA
Founding member
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Location: here or there, depending on one's perspective
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinVenom
I guess I am in the minority, I like it as a DD.
That leaves the other toys for the weekend and other special times.
Ah, but why have two when you can have one that does both jobs? With the design of the concept you had the best of both worlds - a really nice looking car that could pass as a sporty driver for fun, plus the economy of a plug-in gas-electric hybrid. Not only that, it was a vehicle that inspired passion from a lot of consumers who wouldn't otherwise touch a PGE and filled up a lot of waiting lists. This was to be a impassioned thrust by GM to make a car people really want to drive, reconnecting them with emotion and the car sales it drives. Not a bad idea.
So what did they do? They optimized it to make it slightly more efficient. The result is one less seat, a battery pack through the center of the cabin a la RX8 drive shaft, and a shape that inspires car salesmen to try that much harder to sell them. It's a daily driver, sure. It's an optimized DD that will get just about 40 miles on a charge, probably 2-3 more than with the old shape, because of Cd changes. Well, that's great, save for most commutes are not going to be at higher speeds where Cd really matters. So now you have a decent tech demo for the tree huggers and leave the other folks who wouldn't otherwise touch a hybrid with something they still won't touch. Additionally, the Volt's cost is still up in the air, so no telling if it will be affordable for most consumers, be they tree huggers or people who still want to buy the weekend toy(s).
I'm sorry, but if you want to do something like this, make it the second generation car and sell it in addition to the concept. There's plenty of room for more than one Volt in the lineup. Earlier adopters have deep pockets and will pay for the privilege of driving new tech on a hot body. Everyone else will buy a decent car with the added efficiency. Not only that, but that decent car better be decent in price, and the best way to do this is to up unit production rates and get those economies of scale. That's a sensible strategy, not taking a hot idea and neutering it.
Ah, but why have two when you can have one that does both jobs? With the design of the concept you had the best of both worlds - a really nice looking car that could pass as a sporty driver for fun, plus the economy of a plug-in gas-electric hybrid. Not only that, it was a vehicle that inspired passion from a lot of consumers who wouldn't otherwise touch a PGE and filled up a lot of waiting lists. This was to be a impassioned thrust by GM to make a car people really want to drive, reconnecting them with emotion and the car sales it drives. Not a bad idea.
So what did they do? They optimized it to make it slightly more efficient. The result is one less seat, a battery pack through the center of the cabin a la RX8 drive shaft, and a shape that inspires car salesmen to try that much harder to sell them. It's a daily driver, sure. It's an optimized DD that will get just about 40 miles on a charge, probably 2-3 more than with the old shape, because of Cd changes. Well, that's great, save for most commutes are not going to be at higher speeds where Cd really matters. So now you have a decent tech demo for the tree huggers and leave the other folks who wouldn't otherwise touch a hybrid with something they still won't touch. Additionally, the Volt's cost is still up in the air, so no telling if it will be affordable for most consumers, be they tree huggers or people who still want to buy the weekend toy(s).
I'm sorry, but if you want to do something like this, make it the second generation car and sell it in addition to the concept. There's plenty of room for more than one Volt in the lineup. Earlier adopters have deep pockets and will pay for the privilege of driving new tech on a hot body. Everyone else will buy a decent car with the added efficiency. Not only that, but that decent car better be decent in price, and the best way to do this is to up unit production rates and get those economies of scale. That's a sensible strategy, not taking a hot idea and neutering it.
Thank you sir, for making a great discussion of this. Your points here are exactly the way I see it. GM made a huge mistake here, and having a hot looking yet fuel-conscious vehicle in the fold would be better to start after that hot concept thanf letting the passionate autophiles like me get another cookie-cutter car and pleasing the tree huggers because of a few extra miles out of this vehicle. Sadly, this is why GM doesn't get it...
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Solstice GXP picked up 10/13/2006. Triple black Mysterious, Darkside, Ebony leather with red stitching. All Options, but no spoiler. 5 speed chrome wheels, XM, OnStar, sport metallic pedals everything but the blonde salesgirl...
Like it or not, the only reason GM is building the Volt is in order to comply with “…future fuel economy and pollution rules in both the US and EU.” Every car maker will need to have one, including BMW. Autocar - BMW confirms electric city car
Personally, for being a first try, I think the Volt is better looking and more practical then the two seat BMW or new 2009 Prius. But not as good looking as the 3.5 liter V6 gasoline-electric hybrid S400 Mercedes to be built by late 2009.
Here's some food for thought. The only problem with the Volt is that the EPA could hurt sales depending on how they test it.
Quote:
Word around Detroit is GM and the EPA are apparently duking it out over the Chevy Volt. The problem is this: Is the Volt an electric car or a hybrid? How you define the Volt is important, because it dictates how the official EPA fuel-economy numbers will be calculated.
Strictly speaking, the Volt is a hybrid in that it is an electric vehicle with an on-board internal-combustion engine (likely a version of GM;s 1.4L Family Zero four). The internal-combustion engine, which is connected to a generator, acts as a range extender when the Volt's lithium-ion battery pack runs low on power.
The Volt's electric drive unit is designed to run 40 miles purely on the power from the battery pack. After that, then the internal-combustion engine kicks in, generating enough electricity to power the electric drive for what GM says is hundreds of miles more.
Unlike a hybrid like the Prius, which uses its electric motor, gas engine, or a combination of both to turn the wheels, the Volt's wheels are turned only by its electric drive unit.
Now, here's the rub: Reports suggest the Volt can make it through the EPA test cycle -- which from 2008 includes high-speed running, air-conditioning load, and cold-start tests in addition to the city and highway cycles -- with the internal-combustion engine running about 15% of the time.
The straightforward calculation gives the Volt an EPA fuel-consumption rating somewhere north of 100 mpg. But the EPA apparently wants to certify the Volt differently, insisting it finishes the test with the batteries close to full charge. That drops the calculated fuel consumption to just under 48 mpg, because the internal-combustion engine would have to be run essentially all the time to keep the batteries near full charge.
GM argues, with some justification, the EPA's methodology does not reflect the duty cycle for which the Volt was designed. Many consumers, insiders insist, may never have the internal-combustion engine come on at all if their total daily commute is 40 miles or less, or if they recharge the car at their workplace.
The problem is if the Volt goes to market with an EPA rating that is not substantially better than can be achieved by hybrids, diesels, or other small cars, GM insiders worry consumers may not see the value in the car's near-$40,000 price tag.
I like it. I think it will appeal to a broader number of people. The thing I like best is it power systems 40 miles on electric power only and a motor to drive the electric motor after that.To recharge just plug it in. The cost to drive a cup of coffee. I hope eveybody buys them leaving more fuel available to drive my Sky.
Location: Rosamond, CA - Home of Willow Springs Raceway
Looks fine to me but I will only buy a hybrid if there's no other option in new cars and I REALLY want a new car. Otherwise, I'll be sticking to gas and diesels. If I'm not mistaken the concepts CD was right where the Sols is so they had no choice but to change the design. I find it hard to believe that there are sooooooooooooooo many people out there that think concepts are the final (or near final) design of a car. Never had been, never will be. Sounds like automakers need to do some training or tone down their concepts so people don't get so pissed off when the design is changed. Or better yet, don't tell people the concept will be built and change the names so no one correlates the two.
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2007 Cool GXP with Darkside Top, 5 spd, Ebony Cloth, Monsoon with Single CD, Sport Pedals, XM, A/C
Mods - Solo Street/Race Exhaust, K&N Drop-in Air Filter, EDAL
