I'm not going to let the small community here pass off the Volt as more crap from GM, I'm sick of the pessimism and the inability of folks to understand something good as it stands right in front them! The phrase, "GM doesn't build cars that people want." is such Bull$hit nowadays. The following would prove otherwise: Malibu, CTS, CTS-V, Corvette, VOLT, Cruz, Arcadia, Enclave, etc…[/quote]
BRADY
Dont hold back!!! Tell us what you really think................
keep it CooooooL !
We all have our opinons, You like it, but some of us dont.
You can put your advance order in and help GM out.
I like GM cars and hope they can make it.
I love my Solstice and think GM did a fantastic Job on this car
From GM-Volt, some great info here:
[i]After the Volt unveiling the Toronto Star had a fruitful Q& A with GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz.
Lutz told reporters that because things have gone so well, the Volt is actually ahead of schedule. He indicated that he was now 99.9% sure the Volt will be a success, and that as a result it will have a transformational effect on the public’s perception of GM’s technological and environmental prowess.
He also discussed issues being worked out for apartment dwellers, and noted one idea would be to persuade garage owners to set aside an area for car charging and discussed the way public chargers would have to be designed so thieves couldn’t steal power. The charger would have a sliding door that locks the cord in place, opening only when a credit card was swiped.
He also publicly confirmed that GM will unveil the Volt’s photovoltaic roof option at the Detroit Auto Show in January. The roof, he said, will be able to charge the battery from 1/4 to 1/3 over 3 hot blazing days of sun, such as in an airport parking lot, and could function keep the A/C on when parked on hot summer days, avoiding battery draw to cool up the car when the driver gets in.
Sounds awesome.
Hmm... I seem to recall mentioning something about this... and then SM followed up with a *very* informative and greatly appreciated post on the topic.
I wouldn't agree that the car is ahead of schedule though... depends on your take of the situation. *Ahead* of GM's schedule.. no, I would say they are on schedule for the Volt as developed.. I mean, design freeze was a few days late of the September target date... and a few other areas have "slipped" a bit but I would say they are *ahead* of schedule on a development of a new platform without a doubt. So.. I take the *ahead* of schedule comment with a large grain of salt (maybe from the old Detroit Salt Mines?). Will they deliver in Nov. 2010... I'm 90% confident currently.
I'm not going to let the small community here pass off the Volt as more crap from GM, I'm sick of the pessimism and the inability of folks to understand something good as it stands right in front them! The phrase, "GM doesn't build cars that people want." is such Bull$hit nowadays. The following would prove otherwise: Malibu, CTS, CTS-V, Corvette, VOLT, Cruz, Arcadia, Enclave, etc…
BRADY
Dont hold back!!! Tell us what you really think................
keep it CooooooL !
We all have our opinons, You like it, but some of us dont.
You can put your advance order in and help GM out.
I like GM cars and hope they can make it.
I love my Solstice and think GM did a fantastic Job on this car[/quote]
Understand what you are saying.. but why is it when one person on the board doesn't like something (you, or Snugglebear for instance) then "GM doesn't build cars that people want"?
Can't those people simply say.. "it's not a car I would want", and move on instead of extending their opinion to the public at large.
I mean.. come on.. the Volt has a following on their forum with over 40,000 people committed to purchasing the car right now. I'd day that's a great situation for GM to be in... when the car goes global, do you think nobody will want it but those 40k?
Comparison for 2010 Prius (no-plug) and the 2010 Volt:
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Its very common knowledge around here that the original Volt concept was considerably redesigned for production, and was unveiled on September 16th.
The Ohio Plain Dealer has a discussion of that process as it was explained members the Volts designs team, including design chief Bob Boniface.
Boniface indicates the car doesn’t look like the “electric camaro” some people may have expected, but explains that concept cars are built purely for looks and have no practical limitations. It was indeed those limitations that caused the concept to change.
It was explained that the concept car’s long hood and big wheels would have led to 10 to 20 miles less range. The concept’s wheelbase was as large as GM’s biggest SUVs, and therefore if used would have actually wound up handling like a truck.
Volt aerodynamic engineer Ken Karbon acknowledged some people feel the production Volt shares some similarities with the Prius. It turns out the “arch-like” body shape is the most aerodynamic, and he said “the laws of aerodynamics are the same if it’s a Toyota or a Chevy.”
Another key factor underlying the design change was the fact that the Volt would have to sit on the global compact delta platform, which restrained it some more.
In the end, Boniface said, “I’m more proud of this car than I am of the concept car. To make the car still good looking after putting on all of these restricting criteria was tough, and I think we delivered on it.”
__________________
2008 Black/Black GXP, purchased 7/23 right off the train.
Mod#1 blacked-out headlights
Mod#2 GMPP Intake -I like to hear my turbo.
Mod#3 Special Sauce (23PSI)
Mod#4 Solo Street Race
Mod#5 Repaint w/ Custom Silver Stripes
'07 Charger R/T Mama's car
Battery Supplier Chosen!
Reuters has just reported inside sources have confirmed that GM has chosen LG Chem along with Troy, Michigan-based Compact Power Inc. to supply the lithium-ion battery packs for the first generation Chevy Volt.
The contract will be announced in November and the terms are still being worked out.
GM and Compact Power are apparently working out the details of the commercial agreement and how to split warranty costs for the batteries.
GM hasn’t confirmed these reports but an LG Chem spokesman in Korea stated “we were informed that the results are due in November, but we didn’t get any official answer from GM yet. We hope for and expect a good result.”
As we have heard before in a subtle way from GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz, GM was only using one supplier’s packs in the mules. Concurrently, we had heard from Compact Power’s CEO that his batteries were being used in the mules. Sources have now confirmed this is the case and that the mules packs are performing flawlessly.
A123/Continental could still potentially supply Volt packs in the next generation.
__________________
2008 Black/Black GXP, purchased 7/23 right off the train.
Mod#1 blacked-out headlights
Mod#2 GMPP Intake -I like to hear my turbo.
Mod#3 Special Sauce (23PSI)
Mod#4 Solo Street Race
Mod#5 Repaint w/ Custom Silver Stripes
'07 Charger R/T Mama's car
Battery Supplier Chosen!
Reuters has just reported inside sources have confirmed that GM has chosen LG Chem along with Troy, Michigan-based Compact Power Inc. to supply the lithium-ion battery packs for the first generation Chevy Volt.
The contract will be announced in November and the terms are still being worked out.
GM and Compact Power are apparently working out the details of the commercial agreement and how to split warranty costs for the batteries.
GM hasn’t confirmed these reports but an LG Chem spokesman in Korea stated “we were informed that the results are due in November, but we didn’t get any official answer from GM yet. We hope for and expect a good result.”
As we have heard before in a subtle way from GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz, GM was only using one supplier’s packs in the mules. Concurrently, we had heard from Compact Power’s CEO that his batteries were being used in the mules. Sources have now confirmed this is the case and that the mules packs are performing flawlessly.
A123/Continental could still potentially supply Volt packs in the next generation.
Thanks for keeping folks up to date over here (I follow gm-volt myself), but if you are going to post news here, a link would be great as well.
Mule testing has been ongoing for weeks now... that's about all I can speak about though as that is public knowledge, and other things I know are not yet.
I'm excited about this.. and still believe it will be on time in Nov. 2010.
We have just heard from Reuters that anonymous sources confirmed that LG Chem is supplying the Gen 1 Volt pack.
I have been speculating for a while that LG Chem would be the winner, I had also recently interviewed CPI’s CEO Prahbakar Patil (see post). Patil had indicated that the GM deal would be for more than 50,000 packs, and that he would build a facility piggybacking the Volt Hamtramck assembly plant. He also noted that LG Chem was already making 40 million lithium-ion cells per month so adding the Volt demand wouldn’t require any additional factory build-out, just a new cell line within it.
Below is an interview with Bob Kruse, GMs director of Hybrids and EVs, that I had about the battery contract, that took place prior to yesterday’s report.
If you’ve internally chosen the Volts battery supplier, why delay the announcement?
What we have publicly announced Is that we are working with the two suppliers as a result of our development contract, one is LG Chem/CPI and the other is A123/Conti. We have not signed a production contract with anybody at this point and time. Its our anticipation that we will finalize that contract and be able to publicly announce who that battery supplier is by the end of the year. That will be the supplier for our initial Volt application. We will continue to work with other battery suppliers, A123 included, to look for the next step in battery technology lithium-ion or otherwise for future generations of the Volt.
Right now we have a pretty good idea of the cell chemistry and the cell that is most suitable for our generation one vehicle, but part of the long-term success of the Volt will depend on the economic equation that goes along with it. Part of that requires my organization to drive through generational iteration to drive costs down that cost curve. As volume goes up as efficiency goes up as experience goes up we’re going to drive down the cost curve. Part of what were anticipating is that there’s a lot of investment going on in electric energy storage. We’re positioning ourselves to be able to adapt our vehicles to the right technology at the right time. If I pick LG I’m going to maintain an advanced development contract with A123 and if I pick A123 Im going to maintain an advanced development relationship with LG. I’m working with many many companies evaluating their cell chemistries.
So you will go with one supplier for gen-one?
Yes
But you wont rule out the other supplier for gen-two?
Or multiple suppliers.
How many charge discharge cycles have your oldest Volt packs undergone at this point?
I would tell you. When I take folks through the battery lab, I have early Volt T-packs that have gone through charge/discharge cycles. We can take those energy profiles and covert it to miles. So I have some 30 something thousand miles on battery packs. You have a limited amount of time and you’re going through lots of iterations so at some point in tome you’ve understood the trends and the projections. Some of it is developmental some of it is long term life evaluation. Some of the long term life evaluation I can do at the cell level I don’t have to do at the pack and module level.
I would think if the packs are simulating 60 mph and running 24/7 you should be able to get up to 100,000 miles very quickly, in a few months?
Yeah, but there’s a lot of iteration in the hardware at this particular point in our development cycle. Typically right now I’m focused on bringing packs. We have now announced we are into our mule phase. The Malivolts were our pre-mules. I have a very rigorous process by how I take a battery pack from a supplier and put it in a vehicle and turn it on.
First it comes to my lab and I hook it up to a cycler, I cycle it and I make sure it is operating within certain parameters. Then I send it over to my experimental build shop and its put into a vehicle and everything is wrung out before they hook up the power and turn it on. Then in my build facility I don’t actually turn it on. I send it out to my Milford proving grounds and I wring the vehicle and the battery pack out separately while they’re in the vehicle. Then I bring them together and I start to generate torque electrically. Because all the torque in the Volt is done electrically. Then I bring the internal combustion engine on and I get that all working. There are layers of security that are built into the control system. Then I get to a level of torque security, where Im confident the commanded torque and the actual torque are operating how I want. And only after Ive gotten to that point do I allow my developmental engineers to actually being driving the vehicle on General Motors roads in side the proving grounds.
Thats a a high level summary of the steps. Not long, but it’s a detailed purposeful process to ensure that by going through those steps, there is a growing sense of accomplishment withing general Motors and an optimism towards that November 2010 date and that’s all generated by not hope and prayers by experience and knowledge with the hardware and the software.
The current mules are on the compact global delta platform. What shell do they have?
I don’t believe we’ve said what the donor vehicle is. Its Astra-like. The mule will look much more Volt-like than the current mules. I expect well have some type of media event with the mules. I have certain milestones and deliverable to meet before I’ll let the media drive them. At this point in time we are right on track to where we thought we’d be at this time.
Note: GM vice chair Bob Lutz later confirmed that the current Volt mules are in Chevy Cruze shells. Some versions of it with an approximate Volt design and are supposed to appear before the end of this year. In total there will be 50 running mules by the end of 2008.
__________________
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Mod#1 blacked-out headlights
Mod#2 GMPP Intake -I like to hear my turbo.
Mod#3 Special Sauce (23PSI)
Mod#4 Solo Street Race
Mod#5 Repaint w/ Custom Silver Stripes
'07 Charger R/T Mama's car
In a word “YUCK!!!” No wonder GM is heading the way of the dinosaur. With designing like that I’ll keep my Audi.
What happened to the concept?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!??!!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
Read the thread, your questions will be answered.
When a thread has been stretched to 7 pages and 2,500 views it's a good idea to read beyond the initial post.
I'm know, I'm such an a$$.
__________________
2008 Black/Black GXP, purchased 7/23 right off the train.
Mod#1 blacked-out headlights
Mod#2 GMPP Intake -I like to hear my turbo.
Mod#3 Special Sauce (23PSI)
Mod#4 Solo Street Race
Mod#5 Repaint w/ Custom Silver Stripes
'07 Charger R/T Mama's car
Understand what you are saying.. but why is it when one person on the board doesn't like something (you, or Snugglebear for instance) then "GM doesn't build cars that people want"?
Can't those people simply say.. "it's not a car I would want", and move on instead of extending their opinion to the public at large.
I mean.. come on.. the Volt has a following on their forum with over 40,000 people committed to purchasing the car right now. I'd day that's a great situation for GM to be in... when the car goes global, do you think nobody will want it but those 40k?
I say what I say because the GM sales figures are freely available and provide an insight into what's going on. If you take a look at those figures at a vehicle level and compare them to the industry average sales for the same period it's quite revealing. Sure, the new Malibu did extremely well, and it should have given that it's a competitive car, especially combined with the September clearance sales. However, Solstice sales down 46% Y/Y, Grand Prix down 98% Y/Y, Monte Carlo down 99% Y/Y (776 units in September 2007, 7 units in September 2008!).
Just for illustrative purposes, I went down the list of GM September 2008 sales and listed all models that did better than -15% sales, year over year, for September only.
That's 22 models that beat the trend. This is out of 93 different models that GM lists figures for. Excluding the 32 models that are either new for 2009, or are ending production and no longer available, we have 61 models that are valid for Y/Y comparisons. That means 22/61 models are doing well, which, as above, I'm defining as better than industry trend. This is not good.
Along those lines there was a good article posted at Ars tonight on the Volt. As suspected, the major issue right now is the systems integration software. GM seems to think 50% of the battery charge is the magic cycle point for the IC engine. As discussed here, GM is fighting the plug-in hybrid label. The battery, as Brady mentioned, is done, and apparently, most of it is off the shelf. With the software managing the battery as above, GM is estimating a lifespan of 10 years @ 15,000 miles per year. Gas tank size is about 8-9 gallons. However, the big issue is the lack of interior space.
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