Possible V6 for Corvette?

[perris]

Originally Posted by mena661 GM basically has a dedicated engine just for the Corvette as it is. What would be the problem of designing another one? Besides, I think a TT, DI V8 would be awesome and would get better fuel economy (if that's really an issue at the Corvette's numbers).

I think a dual ecotec fits niceley here

[brentil]

Originally Posted by mena661 GM basically has a dedicated engine just for the Corvette as it is. What would be the problem of designing another one? Besides, I think a TT, DI V8 would be awesome and would get better fuel economy (if that's really an issue at the Corvette's numbers).

As I mentioned GM killed the engine that would have been the C7's V8. There is no development what so ever on any type of new V8 (non-pushrod) for the Corvette or Cadillac brand at this time. That means no DOHC, no VVT, and no Direct Injection. Whatever the C7 uses will more than likely be another variant of the current LS3/LS7 engines like the LS2 was a combination of LS1/LS6 technology.

That is of course unless fuel drops below $3/gallon again and GM stops bleeding $20/billion per quarter and decide to start the project back up again. However I don't see that happening any time soon.

GM however is pushing forward with development of high feature V6 engines as we've seen with the 3.6L V6 DOHC VVT DI in the CTS and Camaro. They've shown experimental twin-turbo versions of this V6 as well. I wouldn't be surprised if over the next 5 years we didn't see a new evolution of the current DI system, HCCI, start/stop technology, variable geometry turbos (Borg Warner says they'll have the mass producible version of gasoline VGTs by 2010, the 911 Turbo uses the only gasoline ones in existence now), and/or variable compression ratio. You combine some of those technologies (turbo, DI, and variable compression ratio) with E85 capability and you're talking about the ability to create massive amounts of HP.

Usage of an engine like this already in development for other cars to supplement the aging pushrod V8 as a low-end Corvette base engine would allow GM to bolster their CAFE values and to free up development on higher end V8 engines for the upper level versions.

[nissan350z]

putting a tt v6 in a corvette would make no sense.

#1: it would be down on power compared to its counterpart
#2: the vette in overdrive/6th gear gets 32mpg on the highway what more can you ask
#3: the hardcore vette enthusiast would most likely not buy the car with a v6. just go on to any vette forum and they will tell you this for themselves.
#4: vette owners wouldnt want to be called ricers, hahahahha

[bigblau]

Given GMs current economic state, with sales down 26% as of the beginning of August and the fact that GM needs to cut at least $10 billion in costs within the next 18 month, someone could predict that GM will be cutting redundent products that are only compeating against themselves. Kappa is already on the chopping block for 2011. GM will need an affordable 2-seat sports car after that.

I just recently saw a $80,000 sticker price on a 2009 LS7 at the local Chevy dealer. That's not an affordable 2-seat sports car. Rhetorical question, how does GM get an affordable, successful, well known selling brand 2-seat sports car to market to fill Kappa's market base and not increase production costs? IMO you take out 200 lbs. and reduce the size of the next generation C8 and offer a V6 drivetrain option. Up scale cars will have the more expensive powerful V8 LS3, LS7, and LS9 options.

Current CAFE standards are 27.5 mpg for cars but in 2007, Congress for the first time in 32 years passed a comprehensive energy bill (H.R.6), requiring 35 mpg by 2020. Also, currently the U.S. does not have Federally mandated policies to curb greenhouse gas emissions, as Europe does, but don't worry we will.

I personally do not care about turbos, but I realize that times are changing. That's where Vorsprung durch technik comes in. This has been Audi's strapline since the 1970s, which means Advancement through technology. A TT V6 would have V8-like performance but would be lighter, achieve better fuel economy and emit fewer CO2 emissions.

The 2010 V6 Camaro weighs 3,700 lbs., which is 200 lbs less then the V8 powered Camaro. With a N/A 300HP DI V6 the Camaro gets a estimated 18mpg City/26mpg Hwy while the V8 Camaro is estimated at 23mpg Hwy. Imagine the mileage a TT V6 Corvette, weighing 3,000 lbs., would get in overdrive/6th gear. It would also possibly make the power of a LS1 or LS2. Not bad for a little brother to the V8 powered Vettes.

I really can't see a hard-core vette enthusiast switching over to a 530HP 6-cylinder 911GT2 Porsche when for half the price he could buy a S/C 565HP ZR1 Corvette. I also can't see a hard-core vette enthusiast switching to a V8 powered Audi R8 just because GM decided to offer a V6 option to the Corvette. After all, the first C1 was a 6-cylinder. I can just image GM offering an affordable 2013 60 Year Special Anniversary V6 Corvette to launch the new optional V6 drivetrain.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/pdf/...ifications.pdf

2010 Chevrolet Camaro First Drive -- behind the wheel of the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro V-6 prototype - Motor Trend

[mena661]

Selling MORE Corvettes puts them in danger of killing the whole line. Make LESS available. I still fail to see how a low volume car affects CAFE for the entire company.

[BaldTurboFreak]

Well if they are going to try and pull that off it had better damn well be a straight 6 atlas engine in the original cu/in with DI and PSI..

[jimbo]

Food for thought... Why a V6?

Ferrari used to build small displacement V8's of 3.0L and 3.2L. Couldn't GM offer a DI turbocharged 3.6L V8 that would rev to 8,000+ rpm? Would it be a maintenance nightmare or would it be too costly to build profitably?

There hasn't been a 6-cylinder powered corvette since the blue flame six and the 1st model year Corvette that sold abysmally and was almost discontinued. A V6 Vette would be a marketting nightmare for the Corvette faithful. Don't even get me started that various internationa cars like the GT-R or Porsche 911 use V6s. Not the same. They don't have the heritage that REQUIRES a V8 in the Corvette. That heritage is part of the appeal.

A high-revving screamer of a small displacement V8 turbocharged to 425HP seems like it would be more than capable of meeting both marketing and performance goals for future Corvettes. They might lose the "no replacement for displacement" crowd, but axing the V8 would be suicide. You might as well rename the Corvette "Fiero" and be done with it.

Merely offering a V6 would water down the Corvette image enough to start all rivals calling them "secretary Vettes." No slam on secretaries, but while the Camaro failthful can accept a high-volume V6 model that suupports a V8 version, Corvette owners will not be so understanding. A V6 Vette would be seen as a desperation measure foretelling either the death of the Vette or an expectation of watered down Vettes to come.

A V6 will kill the Corvette's image. It would be most unwise.

[nissan350z]

agree with every word that comes out of jimbo's mouth^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[bigblau]

I understand all that nostalgia and historical V8 purist stuff of Corvette fans. Just like Harley riders want their air-cooled V-Twin, Corvette fans want their V8s. But the fact is that the first ever Corvette was a 6-cylinder called the blue flame. It was a 3.9L (234cu.in.) 150HP I-6 truck engine. It was available with only a 2-speed Powerglide from 1953 to 1955. In 1955 consumers had the option of the I-6 or the new Ed Cole 4.3L (265cu.in.) 195HP SB V8 and 3-speed manual. Of course that put an end to the truck engine –no brainer there. With cheep gas and good times ahead, nobody ever looked back.

But the times they are a changing. Now, fifty-five years later, with ever increasing world wide government regulations on fuel and eventually emission standards and GM struggling in their North American Market, having to cut billions of dollars in costs, GM does not have the capital to develop a new smaller V8 in 15 weeks as they did in 1955. But they have a great 3.6L V6 DOHC VVT DI to work with. A new Turbo V6 will put out significantly more than the 150HP of the original blue flame 6. It will even put out more than the first V8 Corvette. IMO the V6 will be playing an ever increasing role in becoming the high-performance engine of the future for the world wide automotive industry.

Even Ferrari is considering a Turbo V6 for its next-generation of cars. Motor Authority » Ferrari reportedly considering V6 turbo to save fuel
“Ferrari has ruled out nothing in terms of technology as it works to keep high-performance a priority while accommodating strict emissions rules.” Ferrari is not focusing on the power wars anymore. But will be focusing on losing weight. Even Tom Wallace, only the fourth chief engineer in the 55-year history of the Corvette says that the next Corvette will have a heavy emphasis on pounds per horsepower. IMO, the best way to do that would be to have a Turbo V6 in an affordable base Corvette, seeing that there will be no such future offering after 2011 in the form of a Solstice.

Below is a pic of the new Ferrari California. If Ferrari doesn’t have an inferiority complex about putting a V6 in one of its cars, why should Corvette fans?

[mena661]

The Ferrari California is V8 powered.

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by mena661 The Ferrari California is V8 powered.

This is true, and only V-8 powered for now.

[bradyb]

Like I've said many many many many times, A pushrod V8 will always be cheaper with about the same mileage as a V6. The following combo together is how the Vette gets it's excellent mileage:

• Low end V8 torque
• Tall rear end
• Double over drive

If the Vette needs better mileage just go back to a 5.7 liter with higher compression and direct injection.

The LS6 5.7 ZO6 got awesome mileage, better then just about any V6 sports car.

[bigblau]

Originally Posted by mena661 The Ferrari California is V8 powered.

Yes, the recently released California has already begun to employ some small technological tools like the company’s first DI V8 engine. As the company moves forward with the next generation of engines, Ferrari is open to the possibility of using a FI V6 for 2013 to 2016. I suspect that one of the reasons Ferrari is considering a FI V6 is the fact that it will get better mileage, emit 15% less emissions, is smaller and weighs less then a comparable V8.

GM does not currently have a DI V8 to employ in the C6. Given GMs financial condition it is not likely that GM will develop a DI V8 any time soon. But GM does have a 3.6L V6 DOHC VVT DI. The C7 is not scheduled to be released before 2012 MY.

You have to admit, that California sure is a nice looking car. I can imagine a affordable C7 Corvette with similar looks and a V6. Gee, reminds me of a Solstice.

[brentil]

Originally Posted by bigblau GM does not currently have a DI V8 to employ in the C6. Given GMs financial condition it is not likely that GM will develop a DI V8 any time soon. But GM does have a 3.6L V6 DOHC VVT DI. The C7 is not scheduled to be released before 2012 MY.

This is the main point I keep trying to stress but seems to be continually overlooked. GM was developing a high feature V8 that would have been the future Cady/C7 engine but the project was officially canceled. GM has two options;

1. Pushrod V8 variants
   1. Evolution of the LS3 as some sort of future version - easiest development of them all, could provide small quick turn around but will provide the least HP/MPG benefits, could be shared across Corvette/Camaro/CTS/G8
   2. Smaller displacement super/turbo pushrod V8 version - could provide more HP and better fuel economy, maintains V8 image, possibly more development time and cost, could be shared across Corvette/Camaro/CTS/G8
2. Twin Turbo V6 VVT and DI - would require the most upfront development but could provide the largest benefit (weight/cost/mpg), could be shared across any of GM's vehicles using a V8/V6 currently greatly lowering costs overall

GM is bleeding money like there's now tomorrow. They just don't have the money to keep throwing at specialty items anymore. They killed the high feature V8 because they knew it just wouldn't be worth it in the long run. After killing that engine they're not going to start development up again of an engine like it again for a very long time.

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by bigblau Yes, the recently released California has already begun to employ some small technological tools like the company’s first DI V8 engine. As the company moves forward with the next generation of engines, Ferrari is open to the possibility of using a FI V6 for 2013 to 2016. I suspect that one of the reasons Ferrari is considering a FI V6 is the fact that it will get better mileage, emit 15% less emissions, is smaller and weighs less then a comparable V8. GM does not currently have a DI V8 to employ in the C6. Given GMs financial condition it is not likely that GM will develop a DI V8 any time soon. But GM does have a 3.6L V6 DOHC VVT DI. The C7 is not scheduled to be released before 2012 MY. You have to admit, that California sure is a nice looking car. I can imagine a affordable C7 Corvette with similar looks and a V6. Gee, reminds me of a Solstice. [IMG]http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn466/1a2b3c60/Z0K/ferrari_california_2.jpg[/IMG ]

You are correct that Ferrari is investigating and researching the potential of a DI FI V-6 with a timeframe unknown. I doubt it will make it into the California which at most has a 4 year run planned. Perhaps the California's successor. The California is nice looking, despite Robert Cumberford's review of its styling in automobile magazine recently. But GMs pushrod LS family of V-8s gets excellent fuel mileage in a sub 3000 lbs car like the C7 Corvette. In addition, we see what the current Corvette offers in terms of daily driveability, decent city fuel economy and excellent highway fuel economy. Also, the Corvette faithful and purists inside GM will not offer a V-6 until marketing data and clinics suggest that the Corvette buyer is interested in a V-6 for the Corvette. I suggest sending word to Corvette engineers about your wish for one and I suggest getting feedback from the myriad of Corvette forums in regards to a V-6 in the Corvette. I don't know the future, but at present, I think you are going to find that those Corvette forum goers are adamantly and forcefully against a V-6 in the Corvette. Just my suspicions, and I may be wrong.