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Old 02-17-2006, 11:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Torrent shredded by journalist.

Just in case anyone thought Jim Healey was being a homer last week when he gave the Buick Lucerne a glowing review... going so far as to say it was better than the new Toyota Avalon, he has absolutely shredded the Pontiac Torrent this week.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ent-usat_x.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA Today
By James Healey

A Torrent of criticism for Pontiac's new SUV
This won't be one that wows 'em with General Motors' new dedication to premium presentation.


One of Torrent’s strong points is its attractive styling. It looks more expensive than it is.


Torrent, Pontiac's version of the crude Chevrolet Equinox crossover SUV, seems cheap and clumsy — like the Equinox (Test Drive, June 18, 2004). The front-wheel-drive test vehicle's plastic parts were yester-tech; brittle and flimsy. The automatic transmission gearshift lever slopped, clackety-clack, through its positions. The back of the front seat feels as if it's throwing you forward off the seat. The markings on the wiggly, imprecise climate control knobs are almost impossible to see in daylight (though easier when illuminated at night).

Using the turn-signal lever — as a designer at a rival company once said about his own flop — feels like breaking a chicken's leg. Audio control buttons on the steering wheel spokes are so small they are hard to push with a bare hand, never mind a gloved one. The gear-position indicator is down by the shift lever instead of up higher in the main instrument panel. That means you have to drop your eyes from the road ahead to tell if, for example, you got the lever all the way into drive, or spaced out and left it in that lower gear you used coming down a steep hill. (Eventually the engine drone would give you a clue, but why not make it easy?)

Plastic trim that surrounds the ignition slot and covers part of the steering column was feeble and loose in the test vehicle.

The V-6 engine vibrates. You notice how much when you shift into neutral waiting at a stoplight and the Magic Fingers shaking ceases.

Handling — defined here as the ability to go around a corner quickly, gracefully — is OK at lower speeds, but becomes suddenly cumbersome and unusually nose-heavy (even for a front-drive vehicle) with the addition of 1 or 2 mph, and does so without telegraphing to the driver where the dividing line is. Body lean is minimal when Torrent is in its well-behaved handling mode, but the lean grows rapidly as cornering speed increases even a little. Not what you expect from a sporty brand, as Pontiac is trying to become anew.

Faint groans issued randomly from the rear of the test vehicle, which had about 4,100 miles on the odometer. In its defense, that's a lot of miles for a vehicle that goes from one beat-it-hard journalist to another. But not enough to justify such noises. And they were the maddening kind — unpredictable, so you wouldn't be able to describe the circumstances to your friendly service guy, nor expect the Torrent to misbehave when he drives it to check.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration files show no recalls, no investigations and almost no complaints. But they do show a significant number of technical service bulletins, or TSBs. Manufacturers send a TSB to alert dealers to a widespread problem and to have them all fix it uniformly.

The first one that pops up on the TSB list at www.nhtsa.dot.gov is a doozy, suggesting the Torrent has problems with the engine losing power, the transmission failing to downshift, the heater motor going on strike and the speakers buzzing. Others deal with safety belts that are difficult to use. Car companies have been installing belts only about 50 years, so you can see why they might not have it figured out yet.

The front-wheel-drive test vehicle — no four-wheel-drive model was available for testing — was pitiful in the slick, uphill driveway test. Regardless of whether the traction control was turned on or off, Torrent barely could claw upward through snow and slush. And even though it was able, finally, to climb the driveway, Torrent got left at home that day for fear it wouldn't handle safely in the slippery mix of snow and slush. Just another example of what a fraud it is to pitch traction control as a substitute for all-wheel drive, or as a great thing for slippery winters. All makers, not just GM, are guilty of that.

All Torrent's problems are due to its close kinship with the Equinox. GM put a Pontiac body and trim on the Chevy and called it a new model. Instead it's just a different wrapper around the same flaws. Worse, it's a throwback to the bad old days of so-called badge engineering — essentially the same vehicle sold by different GM brands. The automaker has pledged not to do that from now on.

But Equinox and Torrent predate GM's recent get-serious effort, which explains the Torrent but doesn't excuse it.

If you ignore the flubs and focus on Torrent's good points, you find:

• It is handsome, a vehicle that'll catch your eye and make you think you're looking at a much classier, more-expensive SUV (which makes the shortcomings seem that much worse). Cargo space is generous and cleverly supplied with bins and nooks so that small stuff needn't pitch and roll in the way-back vastness.

• The back seat slides fore-aft to tailor the vehicle for cargo or passengers. Even with the back seat fully forward, legroom in back is remarkably good. Long-limbed adults fit. Alas, the stiff and poorly contoured back seat isn't a great place to be, regardless of roominess.

• The back of the front passenger's seat folds flat for more cargo space.

• The transmission is a decent-shifting five-speed automatic instead of the smooth but dated four-speed gearboxes on many newer-design GM models.

• Kid-seat attachment hooks, called Latch connections, are easy to reach instead of being buried so deep in the upholstery you swear they aren't there. GM thoughtfully provides three sets instead of the normal two. That means you can sit your precious in the middle of the back seat, which is the safest spot. It also means you can quickly attach three kid chairs across the Torrent's back seat, if the kid seats aren't too wide.

• There's a good deal of side-flop space in the front seats for those who like to draw up the outboard leg and lean it toward the door when cruise-controlling down the big road. The reason the room is there — and it's a major comfort plus — is because the power-window switches are in the center console instead of on an intrusive pod on the door panel. You decide if the unfamiliar location of the switches is a fair price for the side-to-side leg space.

The best news is that Torrent is blatantly atypical of vehicles GM has launched recently. It's hard to take Torrent seriously as anything but a kind of wink-wink, nod-nod place holder in the lineup.


2006 Pontiac Torrent

• What is it? Small, unibody crossover SUV, similar to the Chevrolet Equinox. Available with front-wheel drive or four-wheel drive. Manufactured at Ingersoll, Ontario.

• How soon? On sale since August.

• How much? Front-drive model starts at $21,990 including $590 destination charge. Four-wheel-drive starts at $23,795. Loaded, close to $30,000. Online car-shopping sites disagree on real-world prices. Edmunds.com says at least $1,100 less than sticker price. CarsDirect.com says you'll pay full sticker price.

• How many? Sales averaged just 2,211 per month the first six months on sale. The similar Chevrolet Equinox is averaging 10,000 per month.

• What's the powertrain? 3.4-liter, pushrod-style V-6 rated 185 horsepower at 5,200 rpm, 210 pounds-feet of torque at 3800 rpm; five-speed automatic transmission; traction control (on front-drive models).

Four-wheel-drive system operates as front-drive until front wheels slip, then begins transferring power to the rears.

• What's the safety gear? Expected belts and bags, anti-lock brakes. Head-curtain bags are optional.

• What's the rest? Standard features include air conditioning; AM/FM/CD stereo; power steering, brakes, locks, windows, mirrors; remote-control locks; tilt-adjustable steering column; rear defroster and wiper; fog lights. More info: www.Pontiac.com.

• How big? A few inches smaller all around than a Ford Explorer. Torrent is 188.8 inches long, 71.4 inches wide, 67 inches tall on a 112.5-inch wheelbase. Rated to tow 3,500 pounds. Cargo space is listed as 35.2 cubic feet behind second row, 68.6 cubic feet behind front row when second row's folded.

• How thirsty? Front-drive models are rated 19 miles per gallon in town, 24 on the highway. Four-wheel drive: 18/23. Regular fuel is specified.

• Overall: Great idea, low-class execution.
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Old 02-17-2006, 06:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I bought my wife an AWD Torrent in December 05, and we absolutely love it. It rides nice, handles nice in lousy conditions, grabs attention (good or bad, who knows), has plenty of room & the build quality is great. The power could be a little better, but I think that I have said that about every car that I owned including my 99 T/A. I could keep on going, but I do not know if it is worth it...

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Old 02-17-2006, 06:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I totally agree, a rebadge Equinox . That Chinese motor is gutless and terribly rough.
GM should have just stuck with the VUE and it's very nice Honda 250 horse 3.5L. The VUE has a better motor and is cheaper, I don't get it.

Bad GM, BAD!
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Old 02-17-2006, 06:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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LOL!

Pontiac deserves every bit of that attack too.

NO SUVs FOR PONTIAC!!!!
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Old 02-17-2006, 06:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stang
LOL!

Pontiac deserves every bit of that attack too.

NO SUVs FOR PONTIAC!!!!
Stang, think how bad it has to be for me to say something negative about GM.
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Old 02-17-2006, 07:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyb
I totally agree, a rebadge Equinox . That Chinese motor is gutless and terribly rough.
GM should have just stuck with the VUE and it's very nice Honda 250 horse 3.5L. The VUE has a better motor and is cheaper, I don't get it.

Bad GM, BAD!
My mother bought one of the restyled 2006 Vue's with the Honda motor, and the vehicle has really impressed me. Build quality is top notch, but what really impressed me was how well it drives. As a complete package, it has plenty of power, handles bad weather conditions great (even in very strong winds, it tracks straigh and doesn't get blown across the highway like my Jeep). It handles well, rides smooth, is comfortable, has very good interior quality, fit and finish, and a nice appearance. That 3.5L Honda engine is very nice too. Very smooth and linear power. The 5 speed auto tranny is sluggish to downshift, and gets caught in the wrong gear sometimes. Overall, however, it is an extremely nice package.

If GM couldn't get more Honda engines for the Torrent or Equinox, they should have at least used the 240 HP 3.9L motor.
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Old 02-17-2006, 07:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm sure GM got a screamin' deal on the Chinese motors that are in the Equinox/Pontiac Equinox.
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Old 02-17-2006, 07:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyb
I'm sure GM got a screamin' deal on the Chinese motors that are in the Equinox/Pontiac Equinox.
It has something to do with their agreement with China to import cars/parts into China and in general do business in China. China wanted them to export products out in part of the agreement to allow them to do business in China. So GM decided to exportthe China built 3.4L engines, and they chose the Theta platform to get them. The deals and situation are more complicated than that, but in essence GM had to export something, and when they chose the engine they had to chose a destination.
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Old 02-17-2006, 08:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That is exactly why I stopped.
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Old 02-17-2006, 08:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fformula88
It has something to do with their agreement with China to import cars/parts into China and in general do business in China. China wanted them to export products out in part of the agreement to allow them to do business in China. So GM decided to exportthe China built 3.4L engines, and they chose the Theta platform to get them. The deals and situation are more complicated than that, but in essence GM had to export something, and when they chose the engine they had to chose a destination.

Furthermore the 3400 turns out to be a pretty decent motor, and the Torrent a pretty decent Vehicle....Just the salesman's two cents....
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Old 02-17-2006, 08:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Furthermore the 3400 turns out to be a pretty decent motor, and the Torrent a pretty decent Vehicle....Just the salesman's two cents....
I hope it doesn't suffer the same intake gasket problems as the US sourced 3.1 and 3.4 engines.
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Old 02-17-2006, 09:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyb
Stang, think how bad it has to be for me to say something negative about GM.
That is very true.
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Old 02-18-2006, 07:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fformula88
I hope it doesn't suffer the same intake gasket problems as the US sourced 3.1 and 3.4 engines.

Funny, I have been selling 3400's and 3100's for 3 years and have yet to see any major problems with them that can't be easily corrected. Heck, I own a car with a 3400 in it.....

I thought a serious problem was when your cruise control switch causes your car to burst into flames.....
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Old 02-18-2006, 10:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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My Wife adored the Torrent, I thought the engine had much to be desired. I love the room in the small SUV. There is more legroom in the back than in our Yukon. I also love the shelve system in the back.

I would not own one becasue it does not meet my needs. But I think all can agree it is a far superiour replacement for the Aztek.
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fformula88
My mother bought one of the restyled 2006 Vue's with the Honda motor, and the vehicle has really impressed me. Build quality is top notch, but what really impressed me was how well it drives. As a complete package, it has plenty of power, handles bad weather conditions great (even in very strong winds, it tracks straigh and doesn't get blown across the highway like my Jeep). It handles well, rides smooth, is comfortable, has very good interior quality, fit and finish, and a nice appearance. That 3.5L Honda engine is very nice too. Very smooth and linear power. The 5 speed auto tranny is sluggish to downshift, and gets caught in the wrong gear sometimes. Overall, however, it is an extremely nice package.

If GM couldn't get more Honda engines for the Torrent or Equinox, they should have at least used the 240 HP 3.9L motor.
Eww, gag me. I rented a VUE this weekend for a SE CT-to-Laguardia dash, and that thing absolutely sucked! It was one with the redesigned nose, no AWD, and about 1500 miles on it. It sounded like a tractor with that loud engine which had NO balls whatsoever, the silver trim pieces on the steering wheel were loose, the center console stack stuck out so far to the left that my leg had to be right against it in order to get my foot squarely on the gas pedal, and worst of all, the steering was both loose and twitchy at the same time: there was a HUGE dead spot where you could turn the wheel about 5-10* in either direction with no movement whatsoever, but immediately past that it would dart left or right. It was completely non-linear. I couldn't wait to dump that POS off back onto the Hertz people.

On the other hand, once I got to Chicago/Wisconsin (24 hours late, so no auto show ), I drove my gf's dad's Envoy XL, which had BY FAR the BEST seat heaters I have ever experienced. It was -23* F in the North Woods (we went snowmobiling) and my ass was SWEATING within 2 minutes of turning them on high. I turned them to low, and they were still almost unbearably hot. My Acura's are nowhere near as good. I still think the Envoy is ugly, but his is completely loaded (DVD, V8, leather, etc etc) and it was a great ride for 6 hours to and from the northern compound, handled the snow great, went 90mph on the highway, and was fautless in the cold weather. I'd still rather have a grand cherokee (he's had 2), but the Envoy was great this weekend. It is on its third ECU in 60k miles, however

Edit to add: the VUE I drove did NOT have the Honda motor, BTW.
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