2010NASSM- ROAD CAPTAIN Master List

[SlyGuy]

Originally Posted by JRinKY Mike made the following post: I am fairly confident that I understood him perfectly, and I am not splitting hairs about anything. My reply was to tell him that I did not need for Mark to go to the trouble of plotting anything into MapQuest for me, that all I need is the list of turns.

D2/Mark.. PM me on this front. My comfort level is not high. Could just be I am just being overly sensitive but i need context and understanding at this point. When I see "all I need is a list of turns", my blood runs cold on runs like this. Doesn't sit well and i refuse to do anything these days that doesn't feel right and has no context for me to understand and accept.

Sorry JRinKY.. That is just the way i roll these days. No free passes for anyone. Bad maps can hurt people and "turn by turn" just doesn't cut it on these runs.

[druid-2]

ok EVERYBODY

We will have multiple sources of information.
you may cull what you want from that.

For starters...if you check out 2010NASSM.com and go to Run descriptions
you will see under each run (both cw & ccw) Click here for run description.

THAT IS ME.

I ran the route in my head...and typed it down....no waypoints...but a few comments like .....don;t miss Carnut's corner.....and a couple of visuals....like the Town Hall in Birmingham. This info is just as much for the navigator to read to the driver as it is for the driver to memorize.

Right under that it says "Click here for Map"

THAT is Mark.

He takes my basic instructions and lays out a Mapquest for the General Information portion. You can see the map as it appears on an Ohio road map.


Next comes the GEEKS....(I still love ya) Howwee comes down with all the above information (so does John...and BLK GXP) and takes my visuals. incorporates Mark's "basic" Map for dummies...and creates a hybrid that can be downloaded into a Garmin or other GPS. (Not everbody has a Garmin or GPS yet..so for some this part is not necessary). This EDI will have the ability to show specific landmarks....voice over instructions and much more.

All of the above can be used by the majority of the people.
To some the industrial strength chip loading is overkill..to others it is perfect.

No one is right or wrong. But by having multiple sources of information out there, we try to cover all the bases


no one is saying their method is better. what we are saying is there is "entry level" information...mid range and 100% edi input (if you want it)

Now cut it out and play nice together

[druid-2]

Originally Posted by SlyGuy D2/Mark.. PM me on this front. My comfort level is not high. Could just be I am just being overly sensitive but i need context and understanding at this point. When I see "all I need is a list of turns", my blood runs cold on runs like this. Doesn't sit well and i refuse to do anything these days that doesn't feel right and has no context for me to understand and accept. Sorry JRinKY.. That is just the way i roll these days. No free passes for anyone. Bad maps can hurt people and "turn by turn" just doesn't cut it on these runs.

please read my comments below and if you need to...call me

[JRinKY]

SlyGuy : D2/Mark.. PM me on this front. My comfort level is not high. Could just be I am just being overly sensitive but i need context and understanding at this point. When I see "all I need is a list of turns", my blood runs cold on runs like this. Doesn't sit well and i refuse to do anything these days that doesn't feel right and has no context for me to understand and accept. Sorry JRinKY.. That is just the way i roll these days. No free passes for anyone. Bad maps can hurt people and "turn by turn" just doesn't cut it on these runs.

Fine. No problem. I am clearly not at the level of competence that you perceive is needed for this task, so I will spend no more time or effort on it. You can relax now, its all yours.

You really should ease up, though. These are maps, not some sort of autopilot control code. A bad map will inconvenience someone, it won't hurt them.

[Cat'sMeanGXP]

Originally Posted by druid-2 ok EVERYBODY We will have multiple sources of information. you may cull what you want from that. For starters...if you check out 2010NASSM.com and go to Run descriptions you will see under each run (both cw & ccw) Click here for run description. THAT IS ME. I ran the route in my head...and typed it down....no waypoints...but a few comments like .....don;t miss Carnut's corner.....and a couple of visuals....like the Town Hall in Birmingham. This info is just as much for the navigator to read to the driver as it is for the driver to memorize. Right under that it says "Click here for Map" THAT is Mark. He takes my basic instructions and lays out a Mapquest for the General Information portion. You can see the map as it appears on an Ohio road map. Next comes the GEEKS....(I still love ya) Howwee comes down with all the above information (so does John...and BLK GXP) and takes my visuals. incorporates Mark's "basic" Map for dummies...and creates a hybrid that can be downloaded into a Garmin or other GPS. (Not everbody has a Garmin or GPS yet..so for some this part is not necessary). This EDI will have the ability to show specific landmarks....voice over instructions and much more. All of the above can be used by the majority of the people. To some the industrial strength chip loading is overkill..to others it is perfect. No one is right or wrong. But by having multiple sources of information out there, we try to cover all the bases no one is saying their method is better. what we are saying is there is "entry level" information...mid range and 100% edi input (if you want it) Now cut it out and play nice together

Well said oh Sol Commander, As a RC…. I would like as much info as possible, only I can decide how much of it that I will use. JUST GIVE ME THAT OPTION!!!
In the May run of the T2TR I used Marks mapquest and while it worked well (for the most part) I do not think I would be comfortable RCing with only that.
I signed up as an RC with the intention that a more accurate map will be available for my Garmin. Let me have all the info and I will decide if I will use it or not. Between myself and my co-pilot I want it all.

[ihawk95]

Originally Posted by Cat'sMeanGXP Well said oh Sol Commander, As a RC…. I would like as much info as possible, only I can decide how much of it that I will use. JUST GIVE ME THAT OPTION!!! In the May run of the T2TR I used Marks mapquest and while it worked well (for the most part) I do not think I would be comfortable RCing with only that. I signed up as an RC with the intention that a more accurate map will be available for my Garmin. Let me have all the info and I will decide if I will use it or not. Between myself and my co-pilot I want it all.

Well stated Russ.

If the boys can agree to disagree on what's best, but still work together to provide the most accurate options to all...it can only benefit the entire group. Some people need more info than others. Some people are visual...some are conceptual. Give them all the options and let them use what works best for them.

JR & Howee...I hope you 2 can work together on this. You both are extremely analytical and will do a thorough job of refining the routes...finding all the key elements and noting them. That benefits everyone. No wrong turns, everything runs smoothly...people know what to expect. That's good information to have. It's important information to have.

[dengel]

Originally Posted by SlyGuy D2/Mark.. PM me on this front. My comfort level is not high. Could just be I am just being overly sensitive but i need context and understanding at this point. When I see "all I need is a list of turns", my blood runs cold on runs like this. Doesn't sit well and i refuse to do anything these days that doesn't feel right and has no context for me to understand and accept. Sorry JRinKY.. That is just the way i roll these days. No free passes for anyone. Bad maps can hurt people and "turn by turn" just doesn't cut it on these runs.

Howie, this is just a little advice at this early stage of the game, but I would relax a little with the other R/Cs. Right now, all of the R/C volunteers are at the point of needing to pre-run the routes and learn them so that we can safely lead a group of cars come next June. And different people have different methods for how they can best learn. Not everyone's brain is wired the same.

While I love my Garmin nuvi 760, I have not always had it's capability to create custom routes. So in my 4 years of leading local runs, my "old school" method of run routing was to lay out what I thought was a good route on mapquest, and then head out on the road with a printed set of turn by turn directions to test what I had created on the computer. I would often make notes of visuals clues, places where the route might need rerouting, etc. and it was very helpful to have the printed route for the planning stage and pre-runs. Once I was leading the run for the group, I had pre-run it so many times i had it pretty well down, and did not really need to rely on the printed turn by turn directions except as an occasional sanity check.

For those doing these initial pre-runs for 2010, which should be done at relatively slow speeds so that the R/C can pay attention and learn the route, the "visuals", the potential hazards, etc., it can very easily and safely be done with maps and written instructions, especially if there is a skilled navigator calling out driving instructions, taking notes regarding the route, etc.

Just my 2 cents on where we are in the game right now.

[druid-2]

and a piggy back

I have re-routed the end of both SOS finishes for 2010 only.

last weekend I did the one from SCIO to the highway

Now I know the one from Kilgore across the rest of 164 is tricky
because I came over the brow of a hill and locked it up 2 years ago....
and i haven't done that road since.

SO..if i can remember that from 2 yrs ago...well i need to go out
and re-run it and GRAB ALL THE VISUALS I CAN GET....because...sure as
shooting one other RC is gonna crest that hill and go "oh CHIT" the same as I did.

I know we are all a bit anal in the things we do....and JRinKY likes to Map turn by turn...but I rely heavily on visuals. and it works....

If I know that just after that red barn the road drops off hard to the right...then i'm gonna post that in the SOS notes so EVERYBODY will know that the problem is there....and no one will cross the double yellow because they think the road goes straight (what they are seeing is a country road that V's off from 164...that much I do remember)

I'm the local guy and I set the runs and I post the visuals....if you choose NOT to use my visuals...they I can honestly say...well i warned you....and I will accept no blame if you mess up.

[Cat'sMeanGXP]

Again only each one of us knows what works for us. And if visual is all that some people need and that works for them, I don’t have a problem with that. And in October I will be closer to a decision of what will work for me. However I would still like all the info…. be it visual, turn by turn maps, garmins, or following someone more familiar then me to help me decide.

SO PLEASE anyone working on photographing, map, audio tape, chiseling it in stone or whatever it is you are doing to make the route easier for YOU… just keep doing it AND SHARE YOUR INFO with the rest of us. The more info we (RCs) get the better prepared we will be.

YOU CAN’T DRIVE THE CAR FOR US SO EDUCATE US

[druid-2]

ok..for future reference

here's what i know and researched on SR164 from Kilgore to 212

Pay special attention....when you see CASTLE RD on your left at the brow of the hill. The road ( 164) dives to your right....and you won;t know it till you crest the hill Castle Rd joins 164 and goes straight ahead..that is what you think you see.
There are also doglegs in both Perrysville and New Hagerstown.

[Cat'sMeanGXP]

Originally Posted by druid-2 ok..for future reference here's what i know and researched on SR164 from Kilgore to 212 Pay special attention....when you see CASTLE RD on your left at the brow of the hill. The road ( 164) dives to your right....and you won;t know it till you crest the hill Castle Rd joins 164 and goes straight ahead..that is what you think you see. There are also doglegs in both Perrysville and New Hagerstown.

See it thank you. It looks like Castle and Polo Rd both come in at that point.

[e-sarge]

Originally Posted by druid-2 ok..for future reference here's what i know and researched on SR164 from Kilgore to 212 Pay special attention....when you see CASTLE RD on your left at the brow of the hill. The road ( 164) dives to your right....and you won;t know it till you crest the hill Castle Rd joins 164 and goes straight ahead..that is what you think you see. There are also doglegs in both Perrysville and New Hagerstown.

I would expect that in the Garmin this would be considered a 'turn', and as such I would have had a visual and audio count-down to the turn (including yardage to the turn as it approaches). Count-downs to your next turn is one of the main features of an automotive GPS unit.

If so, what needs to be done is to test drive it using the Garmin, and if the count-down is not sufficient (due to the blind rise), then we (i.e. Howee and others, possibly including myself if I get my Garmin soon) should do what we can to inject a picture, graphic, audio warning, etc. into the Garmin a few hundred yards ahead of the turn.

As an RC, if I can remember the turn from practice sessions, then I can proceed as normal (and thank my Garmin and Howee for the reminder). If I can't remember the turn exactly, then I can slow down for 15 seconds, negotiate the blind rise and the turn, then return to the speed limit. IMO, anyone who has the nerve to complain about me slowing down to ensure I don't miss a [blind] turn is free to go home -- we'll have our fun in the twisty sections, thank you very much.

If this is not considered a 'turn' in the Garmin, then we need to add some warnings of our own making (graphics, audio, etc.) so that users can be warned of this significant locale (in this case a blind rise plus a possibility of missing a turn). The GPS would quickly point out that you went off course, and help you get turned around, but that's not the experience we want for our run participants.

I've been using another brand of GPS for many years, and I have no intention of even looking at the printed map or directions during the run unless my GPS quits. If I have a navigator in the right chair keeping up with the printed directions, that's a bonus, but I doubt I'll need help once I've done the route once or twice with the GPS. Thats how I roll. Others have a different style, and that's fine. I've RC'd runs in the past using my GPS with success. I believe this is 'totally doable'.

[druid-2]

Roy...all i know is that i came over the brow of the hill and was over the double yellow before i realized that the MAIN road dropped down hard to the right.

Now, mind you, I did NOT have GPS back then.....but...nonetheless, I want to stress that all the GPS's in the world DON'T ALWAYS prepare you for what is on the other side of a blind rise....Sometimes...Visuals can warn your cerebral cortex better.

[dengel]

Originally Posted by druid-2 Roy...all i know is that i came over the brow of the hill and was over the double yellow before i realized that the MAIN road dropped down hard to the right. Now, mind you, I did NOT have GPS back then.....but...nonetheless, I want to stress that all the GPS's in the world DON'T ALWAYS prepare you for what is on the other side of a blind rise....Sometimes...Visuals can warn your cerebral cortex better.

One of the nice features that I have discovered about using the GPS is that if you have it zoomed in enough, you can actually use it to help you "see" what is over that next blind rise, as the graphic on the GPS screen will show the split in the road, and the mapped route following the right fork.

I would never totally rely on this to guide me, but this feature in combination with doing a number of pre-runs should be enough to trigger my memory that this particular feature is coming up come run-time.

And this is just one more example of how different people learn and use the information available to them in different ways.

[JRinKY]

A question that I could probably find the answer to myself, but ....

I remember being instructed, as an RC, to not sign up for runs, yet when I look at the registered attendee list I see several RCs with run sign-ups. Am I missing something ?