Non-binding Poll re 2010 Runs

[druid-2]

Below are the 5 runs that are planned for 2010

IF YOU WERE COMING TO 2010 which ones would you most likely
coose to try. This is non binding ...it is just a way to get an idea where we need to train the road Captains.

**********

At present...there are 5 runs planned

#1...T2TR full and complete as is. Very little modification will be done here (maybe a revamped ending to get us back to Canton faster) This is a 5 hour skill demanding course for those that can handle serious twisties. Challenge Factor 8+ (very tough and demanding...required constant concentration)

#2 SOS.....full and complete as is....Very little modification here also. (maybe a revamped ending to get us back to Canton faster) This is a 4 hour run that is a good warm up to tackling T2TR. Some serious twisties on portions but much tamer than T2TR. Challenge Factor 6 (Tough and challenging..requires a lot of concentration at times)

#3. 555-West. This is currently unmapped. The aim is to provide a somewhat shorter version of T2TR but including 555. It will be entirely west of I-77 and will initially try to follow SR83 down to the river and then back up 555 & 662 to the finish at N-town. approximate time 3- 3 1/2 hrs...will be revised once mapping is complete. Challenge factor 6+ (because of 555) (Tough and challenging..requires a lot of concentration at times)

#4....The Short RUN...This has just been mapped. This will be a 2 hr run that will start north of N-town on SR751...go down to 662 then 209 to 658 and then via Freedom Rd. Gilmore Rd and River Hill Rd to Cty rd 21. It will cover some quite difficult scenarios but these twisties will have a duration of a mile or so...vs the multi-miles of 555. It is very scenic. Challenge factor will remain at 6.(Tough and challenging..requires a lot of concentration at times)

#5....The Amish RUN..This is currently unmapped. This run will start closer to Canton and will be a CRUISE through Amish country with several shopping stops along the way. DA 1234 will be mapping this out over the summer.
Challenge Factor is 2 (4 if you count dodging Amish buggies)

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by druid-2 Below are the 5 runs that are planned for 2010 IF YOU WERE COMING TO 2010 which ones would you most likely coose to try. This is non binding ...it is just a way to get an idea where we need to train the road Captains. ********** At present...there are 5 runs planned #1...T2TR full and complete as is. Very little modification will be done here (maybe a revamped ending to get us back to Canton faster) This is a 5 hour skill demanding course for those that can handle serious twisties. Challenge Factor 8+ #2 SOS.....full and complete as is....Very little modification here also. (maybe a revamped ending to get us back to Canton faster) This is a 4 hour run that is a good warm up to tackling T2TR. Some serious twisties on portions but much tamer than T2TR. Challenge Factor 6 #3. 555-West. This is currently unmapped. The aim is to provide a somewhat shorter version of T2TR but including 555. It will be entirely west of I-77 and will initially try to follow SR83 down to the river and then back up 555 & 662 to the finish at N-town. approximate time 3- 3 1/2 hrs...will be revised once mapping is complete. Challenge factor 6+ (because of 555) #4....The Short RUN...This has just been mapped. This will be a 2 hr run that will start north of N-town on SR751...go down to 662 then 209 to 658 and then via Freedom Rd. Gilmore Rd and River Hill Rd to Cty rd 21. It will cover some quite difficult scenarios but these twisties will have a duration of a mile or so...vs the multi-miles of 555. It is very scenic. Challenge factor will remain at 6. #5....The Amish RUN..This is currently unmapped. This run will start closer to Canton and will be a CRUISE through Amish country with several shopping stops along the way. DA 1234 will be mapping this out over the summer. Challenge Factor is 2 (4 if you count dodging Amish buggies)

Can someone give me an idea of the "Challenge Factors"? I haven't been on any of these runs. How do they compare with Tail of the Dragon?

[Carpe Diem]

Originally Posted by GaryH Can someone give me an idea of the "Challenge Factors"? I haven't been on any of these runs. How do they compare with Tail of the Dragon?

Maybe after the Nationals in Denver, the Challenge Factor could be compared to some of the runs in the Rockies many will be taking. Might make the poll bore applicable For many westerners, we have no clue at to what the roads and conditions might be like in Ohio.

Would another factor to consider be the liklihood of encountering gendarmes on each of the runs?

[druid-2]

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem Maybe after the Nationals in Denver, the Challenge Factor could be compared to some of the runs in the Rockies many will be taking. Might make the poll bore applicable For many westerners, we have no clue at to what the roads and conditions might be like in Ohio. Would another factor to consider be the liklihood of encountering gendarmes on each of the runs?

Point #1.....sounds realistic
Point #2.....the liklihood of encountering gendarmes is 1.6435987%

[ihawk95]

Originally Posted by GaryH Can someone give me an idea of the "Challenge Factors"? I haven't been on any of these runs. How do they compare with Tail of the Dragon?

I haven't been on ToTD yet, but those who have done both The Dragon and 555 say 555 is 62 miles of ToTD. The blind rises and length of the run make it very intense.

If anyone who has done both would like to chime in, please feel free.

[druid-2]

challenge factors have been explained

[druid-2]

challenge factors will be explained in more depth at Denver

[druid-2]

thought i'd bump this since everyone who went to Denver is prolly back 'ome

[SolNut]

My wife, who was raised in Cincy, picked up one of the DVD's that were offered in Colorado @ #3.

When ever we watch it, the DVD, she asks the same question:

WHY DON'T THEY STOP AT STOP SIGNS?

What should I tell her?

Steve

[druid-2]

there is only one stop sign on 555 (at Bartlett...intersecting with 550)
and cross traffic doesn't stop...but we do

the stop signs you see are for roads coming in on an angle
ALSO it's a camera trick....the film is set to 2X...not normal speed
so you don;t see the "stop"

On the whole of the 555 run there are maybe 5 stop signs

none on 258
2 on 513
none 0n 26
Marietta doesn't count....we stop at all stop lights and stop signs
555 has one (noted above)


if you can give me an example I'll research it

like video 3...@ 3:15 seconds in

[SolNut]

Thanks, toss me information on T2TR 1 @ 13:04

Steve

[dengel]

There is also a phenomenon I have noticed on runs that actually makes the run go smoother. If there is a stop sign, especially a four way stop, the lead car will often signal back that the way is clear of cross traffic. Then those following can do more of a "rolling stop" through the interstection, slowing down enough to confirm that no cross traffic is approaching but not really coming to a full "count to 3" before proceeding stop.

While technically not legal, and you'd probably get a ticket if a cop was scoping out the intersection, it makes the run itself go a little more efficiently.

Disclaimer: I am in no way stating that this happens on T2TR, as I don't really recall the details enough either way. This is just a general observation I have made after partipating in many runs, especially in places like Deleware and Pennsylvania, where there are a lot of 4 way stop intersections.

[druid-2]

Originally Posted by SolNut Thanks, toss me information on T2TR 1 @ 13:04 Steve

Steve...I make no excuses
The lead cars did stop at the access to US22...that is obvious
I played it 3 times and slowed it down to 1/8 time to be sure

The rear cars rolled into the intersection TRUE (like dengel said)
my only thought is that they didn't want to lose the pack...no excuse !!!

When you have a 10 car chain they do tend to get spread out a bit at a full stop.

That issue WILL BE ADDRESSED

[rob the elder]

What we have done successfully to avoid pitfalls, is when there is a required stop, the lead car stops and proceeds through the intersection and then waits at a convenient wide spot in the road for the remaining cars to make it through the stop. Then they all proceed together. This avoids having following drivers feel like they have to risk a blue light special to keep up. It helps lower some of the pressure of driving roads that one has never seen before and anxiety of getting lost.

[SlyGuy]

Originally Posted by dengel There is also a phenomenon I have noticed on runs that actually makes the run go smoother. If there is a stop sign, especially a four way stop, the lead car will often signal back that the way is clear of cross traffic. Then those following can do more of a "rolling stop" through the interstection, slowing down enough to confirm that no cross traffic is approaching but not really coming to a full "count to 3" before proceeding stop. While technically not legal, and you'd probably get a ticket if a cop was scoping out the intersection, it makes the run itself go a little more efficiently. Disclaimer: I am in no way stating that this happens on T2TR, as I don't really recall the details enough either way. This is just a general observation I have made after partipating in many runs, especially in places like Deleware and Pennsylvania, where there are a lot of 4 way stop intersections.

Thanks for the post Dengel.. I posted something very similar and then quickly deleted it (needless self-correction once again).

Rob, the DVD you have is probably from my group shot by SOONER. I was RC and Dengel was my #2 (she is very experienced and a hell-of-a-driver... kept the group on an even pace and allowed me to "cobra strike", i.e. pull ahead when needed to test the safety and pull back.. An RC is the crash-test dummy and knows it). We had all veterans on that trip with the exception of the coupe which was well in the back.

When we run, we run as a team with constant radio communication. We call on-coming, road-hazards, curve-intensity, etc etc. We do pass locals in the middling-aggressive and aggressive groups and talk folks through the passes. We also call out stops and lights (In Denver, a group of us came back on our own with run experience. We ran through 20 plus traffic lights as fast as we could travel to get a friend back to a planned activity and never broke the chain.. Constant communication front to back was the key.. The sweep was giving me constant communication regarding the positions of the group and i could focus forward on the timing of the lights. T2TR style).

A well running group of 5 to 8 cars is really a thing of beauty. From the RC to the #2 (shotgun) to the sweep and those in between that respond and relay info understanding their position in the snake. You can run fast, run hard and run safe.

The only time I could be challenged on decisions regarding the T2TR runs was through the deep water. I made a judgment call that was dangerous. I can admit that now but at the time i made my team think all was good and "just plow through" was the best course. Reckless in retrospect but i would not have done it any different in the context of the run.