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Old 04-09-2008, 10:51 AM
  
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Originally Posted by 60's Sol View Post
I have a basic question. Is the Pro Beam better than the KappaSphere ReBar? Which makes the biggest difference in the handling characteristics?

They both fit the same type of need, and it would probably take someone way above most of our expertise to really tell which was better for this type of upgrade. It mainly comes down to which fits your needs, budget, and design preferences.
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:41 AM
  
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Originally Posted by brentil View Post
They both fit the same type of need, and it would probably take someone way above most of our expertise to really tell which was better for this type of upgrade. It mainly comes down to which fits your needs, budget, and design preferences.


Im glad that you posted this comment. Because it is right on. Hopefully people won't post about which one they "THINKS" better, without ever owning both.

Jay
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:51 PM
  
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60's Sol : I have a basic question. Is the Pro Beam better than the KappaSphere ReBar? Which makes the biggest difference in the handling characteristics?
The DDM bar has a connection to the drive axle in addition to the chassis. This may or may not be a benefit.
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Old 04-11-2008, 04:38 PM
  
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The DDM bar has a connection to the drive axle in addition to the chassis. This may or may not be a benefit.

So it rotates? Is it connected to the left half-shaft assembly or the right?
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:11 PM
  
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No, the frame rail that runs from right to left, you drill up from the bottom. You then place the bolt through the Pro Beam, through the frame beam, then you use a washer and nut on the top of the frame beam. It looks like a very secure unit, much stiffer than the kappasphere.

Are you qualified to say that it is much stiffer than ours or is that just your opinion???
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:11 PM
  
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Are you qualified to say that it is much stiffer than ours or is that just your opinion???

Everyone - take a look at the folowing .... and then make your decisions .... I do know that the DDMWorks design went through numerous iterations in their design software before the design was finalized ..... if you'll take a look at some of the prototypes you might see some similarity .... and then the discussion with some GM engineers brought us the ProBeam ..... I have not seen the Rebar on a vehicle and will not denigrate it because Kappasphere does make some quality products for our Sols/Skys ..... but I have the ProBeam installed on 1KULSOL and it definitely makes a difference .... I am by no means an engineer but have been around structural steel and piping for +/- 40 years ... and the way the ProBeam is constructed and attached to the vehicle is by far a much stronger structural brace .....

Life and Death of a Brace

With the Kappa community starting to have options in the power development of our unique platform, DDMWorks has been in development of new suspension and other components. Drawing for our extensive work with other roadster platforms, we have developed a rear structural cross member brace for your Kappa.
Beginning in the early fall of 2007, we began testing prototypes for a stiffening brace on our test Solstice. The objective was to improve on some shortcoming built into our beloved car due to the nature of production vehicles. We began with some very simple and straight forward concepts. However, our test mule proved to be quite a fighter. Feeling all good about a brace design, we merrily bolted up several prototypes and went blasting down the back roads. At least 3 different design concepts met their untimely demise this way. The problem? Our primary test vehicle is lowered and has an aftermarket exhaust. Most of the concepts that we modeled would work perfectly on a stock Kappa, but being lowered and having an aftermarket exhaust killed several designs we had spent days modeling in the computer. Below the photos show several design that, obviously, did not make the final cut.






We continued our quest with what we called the "X-brace". Very functional and VERY cool looking from the rear. But the lowered vehicle and Center exit exhaust setups still proved to be a problem.



Then we engaged a few GM Performance Racing engineers about the problems and what they had discovered were the weakness of the Kappa. From our track brothers in SSB & T2 SCCA racing, we discovered that it's not so much the two lower rear control arm mounts thats the problem. The engineers at GM found the cross member that holds the back of the differential in place is flexing. Although this looks to be very beefy, it is actually very thin metal filled with foam. Due to this flex, all ZOK's use a HD version of this piece. We we're able to inspect the changes they made at the factory, and tailored out new brace like-wise. To do like GM, you would have to weld additional steel in place, not for the average shade tree mechanic.




The DDMWorks Rear Pro-Beam is engineered to bring your light-duty stock cross member up to the par with the 2006 & 2007 SCCA winning Kappas. It has been tested on vehicles lowered as much as 2" with low profile tires. It survived over 10,000 miles of abuse on roads that most of you would never take you rides. Exhaust fitment has been verified with Stock, Magnaflow, SOLO Center, GM Performance and DDMWorks exhaust systems. This is the first brace to tie and link together the diff. cross member to the suspension mounting components. It is made from high quality STEEL and is seam welded. The brace is E-coated black for corrosion protection. Installation is accomplished with simple hand tools and an electric drill.


The DMMWorks Rear Pro-Beam will be available at an introductory price of $159 and will come with Stainless Steel hardware and complete instructions. They are available for Pre-Order now and should be in stock and ready to ship on March 14th

And now KAPPASPHERE

We are excited to offer a new product for the Solstice and Sky, in stock, and ready to ship on Monday. We spent a lot of time on R&D for this product to help maintain better neutrality and increase the handling of your kappa roadster.



Less flex = better performance. During aggressive driving your Kappa car will experience rear chassis flex, which negatively affects handling. Our reBAR reinforces a weak point in the rear sub-frame to better maintain the shape and performance of your roadster. Special introductory price of $175.

Rear Chassis Flex Reduction

* Brace strengthens chassis integrity.
* Better suspension control and driving performance.
* Reduces long term squeaks and rattles.

Easy Installation

* No permanent alteration to your car body.
* Bar stays behind the valence.
* Easily DIY – installation instructions provided.
o Just 8 bolts, 13mm socket and a ratchet.

Durable Quality

* Hand MIG welded in USA.
* Designed to handle the demands of both daily and aggressive driving.
* Powder coated red to protect the bar and give it a great look.

Model Compatibility

* Sky and Redline
* Solstice and GXP
* Will fit certain aftermarket exhausts including 3" systems.





Our introductory price for the reBAR is $175.
You can order it here
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:57 PM
  
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Great ... another purchase that I have to hide from the wife. At least I am buying items that you cannot see easily. I just did the pre-order for April 17th, so I will have it on by the Savannah meet.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:09 PM
  
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Opionions (sp) are good, I think everyone welcomes them, and I am not saying which is better, but I'm sure DDM has put in tons of R&D for their products, as well as Kappasphere. How can anybody discuss the ridigity of either one of these products besides them.. Not understanding that. Anyway, I would bet that either choice would be a great purchase!!! Please let's not do this thread like the super vs. turbo threads go...

Jay
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Old 04-12-2008, 06:43 AM
  
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For this application, I would see welded construction as a benefit over bolts and nuts. If installed without enough torque or if they work loose, the bolted joints would allow some of the undesired movement to return. Periodic checks to ensure the bolts are tight would be another maintenance item to keep up with. Not saying one design is functionally better than the other.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:44 AM
  
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For this application, I would see welded construction as a benefit over bolts and nuts. If installed without enough torque or if they work loose, the bolted joints would allow some of the undesired movement to return. Periodic checks to ensure the bolts are tight would be another maintenance item to keep up with. Not saying one design is functionally better than the other.

I agree, I went with the welded design of the reBar because to me it just looks sturdier.

I cant say this for a fact because I haven't used a DDM brace, just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:58 AM
  
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12_month_wait : So it rotates? Is it connected to the left half-shaft assembly or the right?
The drive axle is what most people erroneously call the differential. It is not suppoed to rotate.
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12_month_wait : For this application, I would see welded construction as a benefit over bolts and nuts. If installed without enough torque or if they work loose, the bolted joints would allow some of the undesired movement to return. Periodic checks to ensure the bolts are tight would be another maintenance item to keep up with. Not saying one design is functionally better than the other.
Welded vs bolted construction is nowhere near as important as the geometry of the mechanism. Unless the installer is incompetent. But an incompetent installer isn't likely to be bolting anything to me car anyway.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:25 AM
  
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The DDM bar has a connection to the drive axle in addition to the chassis. This may or may not be a benefit.

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Originally Posted by JRinKY View Post
The drive axle is what most people erroneously call the differential. It is not suppoed to rotate.

Or vice versa.

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Welded vs bolted construction is nowhere near as important as the geometry of the mechanism. Unless the installer is incompetent. But an incompetent installer isn't likely to be bolting anything to me car anyway.

Geometry = very important
Construction = very important

No comment on "incompetent installer". That's just enough bait to make this turn uncivil.

I have no plans to make statements on the geometry of either vendor's design based upon what I can see and infer from pictures posted on the internet. Both would be a benefit to the car and both have 'geometry' features to resist deformation.
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:54 PM
  
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You know I wouldn't be concerned with the bolts.. I mean unless you re-engineer the whole rear of the car some twist will still be there. For the price, it's worth it, taking out any twist is good. If some is still there, then fine, cause again it does it's job for the price.

Jay
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:08 AM