stage 2 upgrade ozz

[ozz]

would like some input about the upgrade. Performance gained noticed any change in gas mileage .Thinking about having it done but wondering if its worth the price for the performance you gain. 2009 GXP auto wicked ruby red

[I1ULUZ]

Originally Posted by ozz would like some input about the upgrade. Performance gained noticed any change in gas mileage .Thinking about having it done but wondering if its worth the price for the performance you gain. 2009 GXP auto wicked ruby red

Mine might be an abnormality, GM is currently looking into it. But here is stock vs GMPP.

It seems that hardly any auto owners use a real dyno, they use the cheap butt dyno and claim outstanding performance gains. I think any time we spend more than $500 the butt dyno will always tell the head that the car is faster.

9 July another auto owner is going to dyno their car so I am waiting to see his results to see if this is normal or if there is a issue that really needs to be addressed.

[ozz]

Let me know how it turns out haven't got any replies to my thread except you??? Guess no one has a opinion thats strange. OZZ

[Mac]

Other than LUZ everyone that has it including my self knows that for the $ you will find no other mod that adds this much power for the $. REAL word testing and at the track.

My car if i dont drive it like i am in the GUMball rally, +1-2 mpg.

Stock i never had 21 psi boost I see this in first gear well below full rpm.

Add a CAI or IC or new cat back+cat ayou will spend 2x more and get ZERO gain since the stock ECM will dial it back to the stock torque levels with in in few key turns.

There are so many threads on this it is dead horse by now.

[jimbo]

I am considering the Stage 2 as well as I really want that 340 lb-ft of torque.

I think this is the penuntimate thread on the subject, but there are more.

GM Stage II Kit review

Read this entire thread and I think you will feel you know about everything there is to know about it... Flash's Owner is a GM engineer and his ultimate endorsement is that he is not hesitating to get it for his wife's new coupe, after having it on his own roadster. That is about all the endorsement I need.

[Fformula88]

Originally Posted by jimbo I am considering the Stage 2 as well as I really want that 340 lb-ft of torque. I think this is the penuntimate thread on the subject, but there are more. GM Stage II Kit review Read this entire thread and I think you will feel you know about everything there is to know about it... Flash's Owner is a GM engineer and his ultimate endorsement is that he is not hesitating to get it for his wife's new coupe, after having it on his own roadster. That is about all the endorsement I need.

I have heard nothing but good things about the upgrade! I think you will enjoy it!

[jimbo]

I'm glad you could verify that. My problem has been finding a dealer that knows the Stage II upgrade does not nullify your factory warranty. I want to give my money to a dealership that is fully informed. Other than that, I just have to get the kit as I'm not sure of the availability from GM right now?

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by I1ULUZ Mine might be an abnormality, GM is currently looking into it. But here is stock vs GMPP. It seems that hardly any auto owners use a real dyno, they use the cheap butt dyno and claim outstanding performance gains. I think any time we spend more than $500 the butt dyno will always tell the head that the car is faster. 9 July another auto owner is going to dyno their car so I am waiting to see his results to see if this is normal or if there is a issue that really needs to be addressed.

Have you talked to GM yet? If I buy a product that claims X increase in something and it documentably provides not nearly what they claim, that gives me certain rights

In my opinion, they are obligated to not only make this right, but pay for the dyno run to prove it

[Mac]

first a dyno gives a to the wheel, GM is saying at the crank. ALL autos will show less power on a dyno, many reasons even if you pull in 4th (1;1) you still are not in Clutch lock at the torque coverter. Notice when the car shifts to 5th you can feal just after this shift what feals like a 6th gear( lock up of tourque converter). With the loss of power a rear wheel car has anyway pluss the auto. Also the torque of the GMPP tune is less on the auto than the stick. By 5-10? cant remember. BUT even with the numbers you have you should still be getting low 5s 0-60 with GMPP tune with out its HIgh 5.

I think the GMPP tune is going going Gone very soon, GM dropped Pontiac GM is dropping the COBOLT, they are dropping SS, welcome to GOVERMENT Motors. Once westers gets the GMPP Tune Over a Tune we should see even a bit more, though i think the auto for now will not be as up to speed, autos tend to put these motors at knock very easy do to loading the gears at lower rpms than most would with a stick. My stock GMPP tune works with 91, but when i put a we bit to much waist gate mod i can get to knock very fast, the guys with the stick can get more from this mod by a few turns from what i have read and compared to my tests.

I really do not think GM is going to review this as they go through CH11, at best you may get to wind the deal down, they could give your money back and put it back to stock. Now if you can prove it did zip to all cars then a class action suit is needed.

[XplosivePlushToy]

I recently dyno'd my stage 2 car. I do have other modifications, but the power gains of all of them were significant, to say the least.

As of right now, my car is making roughly 100ft/lbs more than stock, and 55hp over stock.

The other modifications include the Solo RCD exhaust and high flow cat, as well as the Dejon Intercooler, but the tune yielded the most noticeable results. My car reliably hits and holds at 22PSI and is trapping 7-8mph higher than stock in the 1/4 mile. Post-tune, I'm hitting 5mph higher in the 1/4 than I was with my bolt-on modifications.

I know this is only what Ive seen first hand, and your results may differ, but I hope this helps. The Stage 2 was definintely the best (and one of the cheapest) modifications Ive made to the car. And with additions like no-lift shift and the removal of the learn-down function, it has compounded the gains of the other modifications substantially.

I highly recommend it.

[snaponbob]

A few observations.

1) I have seen other before/after dynos on the GMPP on an automatic and they DID look better than the graph above. It is certainly important to "drive cycle" the car at least 4-6 cycles to allow the computer to "learn up".
2) When I installed my Westers tune, there was NO question that there was more power, especially when the turbo was fully spooled up. It was also very different power. Uncontrolled wheel spin in second gear leaves NO doubt that there is more power.
3) While almost every bolt on power mod applied to stock tuned RL/GXP will be "learned down" by the computer, a catless down pipe will NOT !!!!!!! I installed a Solo Performance catless downpipe a week before the Westers tune. The changes was VERY apparent and did NOT get "learned down" I drove the car for over 200 miles with only a CEL for cat efficiency (no surprise there) but no negative driveability issues at all. THIS was the mod that was boiling the Goodyears in second gear. The tune unleashed enough more torque to induce traction problems on a hard shift to third. CAUTION: I would NOT recommend using a high flow cat or catless downpipe on a stock tune as I have no idea what may happen (long term) without knowing if the ECM can cope with the increased flow. You do NOT want ANY level of detonation.
4) Unless it has been shown with a dyno session, HPT scans, and an air/fuel ratio chart, it may not be fair to assume that the GMPP tune will fully adjust for more add ons such as high flow cats and ICs. GM didn't design that package for anything other than an otherwise stock platform.

Not trying to correct anybody, just sharing what I think I have learned.

[kwtoxman]

snap on bob,

It looks like bolt ons to improve efficiency (such as IC's, hi flow cats, etc) can be used to good effect on the GM tune. I found this info here right from the GM engineers mouth.... GM Stage II Kit review

Ozz,

I just added the GM turbo upgrade tune to the car. It made a very noticible difference, and I just drove it on the first cycle. I highly recommend it.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by kwtoxman snap on bob, It looks like bolt ons to improve efficiency (such as IC's, hi flow cats, etc) can be used to good effect on the GM tune. I found this info here right from the GM engineers mouth.... GM Stage II Kit review Ozz, I just added the GM turbo upgrade tune to the car. It made a very noticible difference, and I just drove it on the first cycle. I highly recommend it.

And he is probably right. However, in my post I said in #4 that so far nothing has been posted here showing what the ECM is seeing after these goodies have been installed.

[Steve244]

Originally Posted by I1ULUZ It seems that hardly any auto owners use a real dyno, they use the cheap butt dyno and claim outstanding performance gains. I think any time we spend more than $500 the butt dyno will always tell the head that the car is faster.

My head was telling me a 20% gain in performance. My butt told me 10%. My butt may be cheap but it's not easy.

Are you seeing the higher boost levels?

It would be funny if the GMPP tune merely alters the boost reading to show 6 pounds more pressure.

[I1ULUZ]

Originally Posted by Steve244 My head was telling me a 20% gain in performance. My butt told me 10%. My butt may be cheap but it's not easy. Are you seeing the higher boost levels? It would be funny if the GMPP tune merely alters the boost reading to show 6 pounds more pressure.

I only see 17 with a burst of 18 on the street at WOT. On the dyno it peaked at 22 and then fell to 19 after 5200 rpm. So it's being loaded up more on the dyno than on the street. Others are reporting more boost, but weather conditions can cause a change in boost levels. I am VERY close to sea level, tidal flooding is not uncommon around here.

Had it at a dealership again today, they double checked the install and reflashed the PCM again. Then I got to speak with the Service Director, he started out with the normal spill about how you won't feel that much of a difference, blah blah blah, said I should have dyno'd it stock. I said STOP, the lower graph is STOCK before the tune was installed. His tune changed (pun intended) and he then said yea you should have seen more of a gain than that. There is a problem.

He has been in contact with the Area Service Manager who is going to contact GM Powertrain Division for help in this problem.

I will agree with everyone that has a manual car that the GMPP Upgrade really improves the engine performance. But I have yet to see another auto car dynograph to say if it's only my car or all auto's.

Ozz has an Auto, I think everyone saying OH YEA IT'S GREAT, should not do him the disservice of saying it's great if they don't have hard proof.

I have sent the Service Director a scan of my dynosheet, a link to DynoJet's software download website and my dyno run files so they can look at them and forward them to the GM Powertrain to see if they can figure out what is going on. I have spoken to the dyno shop owner and pretty much can get dyno time any evening I need to with a little heads up.

I am hoping to hear something back in the next 2 days if not then early next week.

I also ordered a Dashhawk to see if it will data log more parameters than HPT does right now. Maybe it will show if there is a sensor causing the the PCM to pull the timing out to "save" the engine. There are NO DTC's showing when I scan it with HPT.


Ozz if you do get the tune, I would recommend that you do a before and after dyno session to see what real gains you get from it.