Can you post a picture of the third prototype header, to compare it's looks to the first one?.
Thanks.
__________________ Aggressive GXP at $25,995.00 shipping of $600, Manual Transmission.
Options:
Air, $960; Chrome Wheels, $545; PCQ, Premium Package (Leather), $525; Radio, 6-Disc with MP3, $495; Monsoon, $395; Premium Acoustic Headliner, $150; and Sport Metallic Pedals, $115; all totals $29,180.00. No XM/OnStar and NO Spoiler. MODS (RKSport/Magnaflow dual exit exhaust system, K&N filter, Ventureshield.
First 1000. Aggressive with everything, NO XM/OnStar. SOLD
~~~~~~~ NASSOA
Founding member
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Have the EGR routed in the flange. It will clean up the look and save some labor time on the header.
Looks great!
We would have to have that machined out, and that would cost a lot more, plus time since we would have to out source that procedure. We have put some thought to it though. The EGR tube for production will be a bent part instead of pieced together as the prototypes.
Have the EGR routed in the flange. It will clean up the look and save some labor time on the header.
Looks great!
It does add some cost especially in stainless parts ... I have built quite a few tubular turbo manifolds for the old 2.3L and 2.4L Quad Fours when I was building J-bodies. We used 2/3rd of the thickness of the flange and milled out the egr in that fashion.
Sorry it took so long.
The mid-length header will include CHROMEX ceramic coating inside and out.
The stock exhaust nuts are fine so they will not be included. Right now, as new as everyones car is, the stock metal GM exhaust gasket will work fine, so it will not be included. Later down the road when we can actually order parts for this car, we will stock the GM exhaust manifold gaskets.
Total price is $375.00 plus shipping.
The first 10 orders get a $25.00 discount.
The first 3, and only 3, who agree to do their own dyno testing before and after will get $75.00 off as a rebate. If these 3 are among the first 10, the total discount is still $75.00, with $50.00 being the rebate after numbers are posted.
Let me know who's interested.I'll get a picture of the 3rd prototype up today but they will be raw steel.
I rather you wait and get it ceramic coated etc then post the picture.
__________________ Aggressive GXP at $25,995.00 shipping of $600, Manual Transmission.
Options:
Air, $960; Chrome Wheels, $545; PCQ, Premium Package (Leather), $525; Radio, 6-Disc with MP3, $495; Monsoon, $395; Premium Acoustic Headliner, $150; and Sport Metallic Pedals, $115; all totals $29,180.00. No XM/OnStar and NO Spoiler. MODS (RKSport/Magnaflow dual exit exhaust system, K&N filter, Ventureshield.
First 1000. Aggressive with everything, NO XM/OnStar. SOLD
~~~~~~~ NASSOA
Founding member
~~~~~~~
Here is how I see it:
This is a production vs. one-off design issue. Leaving the EGR on the outside like you see it in the images adds 2 more welds (minimum) and 3 inches more of material. If you pay your welder $15.00/hr and it takes him 20 minutes to take care of that part of the header then spending the extra $5 on the flange for the CNC work is worth it. (The fact of the matter is a welder will cost more in labor on just the EGR than the price of the better flanges.) Face value it’s a wash in cost, but all said and done the overall look of the header is better and it will never be a problem when installing. It’s not difficult to steer the EGR tube around the Thermostat line, but not having it in the first place makes it easier to install the header and reach the 2 studs in that area.
__________________
-Adam Chant
SCdyne Performance Engineering "Tune it or lose it!
Adam,
not even close. The time it takes to drill a hole in the primary and weld a tube from flange to primary is far more cost effective than having the internal EGR. To do an internal EGR the flange would need to be 1/2" thick minimum. This adds to the cost due to laser time and more material. Then the flanges have to go the machinist, more cost. And not $5.00. The machining cost would be closer to $20.00. Remember, we are a small company and do things in small volume. Over-all the appearance may be cleaner but the weight of the header is up and the cost is up.
Access to the nuts is not an issue. Install is the same regardless of the EGR tube.
What we need to find out for sure is if the EGR passage even goes anywhere. We assumed it did but another member thought the EGR was deleted on these engines. Next time we pull the header I will take a look in the hole and run a rod inside to see if it goes anywhere. Maybe it doesn't and we can just forget all about it. That would be ideal.
If the factory catalytic converter is moved, altered, modified, changed, etc, etc. the header system can never be street legal. Now, we have been building and selling headers for years as a bolt-in kit with choice of hi-flow converters or "extended hook-up pipes" (cat delete). Even though converters are in-place with the headers and the car passes the tailpipe test, the system is still only emissions compliant not emissions certified and never will be according to the current C.A.R.B. regulations and specifications. Does this deter owners from purchasing? Almost never as none of our customers to date have ever failed an emissions test. The only headers for these cars, or any car for that matter, that can qualify for an "E.O. #", are those that can bolt to the factory catalytic converter, in the factory installed location.
The only good reason we, or most likely any company, would even build a mid-length or shorty header, is to be able to offer an emissions certified header. Other than that reason, go long tube headers, Period. They will out-perform the shorty, and in most cases, the mid-length header.
If the factory catalytic converter is moved, altered, modified, changed, etc, etc. the header system can never be street legal. Now, we have been building and selling headers for years as a bolt-in kit with choice of hi-flow converters or "extended hook-up pipes" (cat delete). Even though converters are in-place with the headers and the car passes the tailpipe test, the system is still only emissions compliant not emissions certified and never will be according to the current C.A.R.B. regulations and specifications. Does this deter owners from purchasing? Almost never as none of our customers to date have ever failed an emissions test. The only headers for these cars, or any car for that matter, that can qualify for an "E.O. #", are those that can bolt to the factory catalytic converter, in the factory installed location.
The only good reason we, or most likely any company, would even build a mid-length or shorty header, is to be able to offer an emissions certified header. Other than that reason, go long tube headers, Period. They will out-perform the shorty, and in most cases, the mid-length header.
Good information to know. I have never gotten a car emissions certified... so if you can clarify the following, it may help me and other forum members decide whether to buy your long or mid-length header:
Is emissions compliant street legal or must you be emissions certified to be street legal?
Not trying to highjack another thread of yours, just trying to make the best decision before I choose your mid/long headers.
Also, what is typically the difference in the following:
HP gains (long vs mid)
Price (long vs mid)
Gas mileage (long vs mid)
Installation fees (long vs mid)
Is emissions compliant street legal or must you be emissions certified to be street legal? - Technically a product has to have an emissions certification to be considered "street legal". Compliant just means the product has all emissions fittings, and directly replace the stock component. I have said it before, I personally think it's a bunch of BS. Your car either pollutes the sir or it doesn't. Period. Technically, the more efficient the engine runs the cleaner it runs. So tell me why the location of a particular fitting, converter, check valve, etc even matters? Think about it. Bottom line - someone is making money as a result.
HP gains (long vs mid) - Honestly I have no idea on this engine. Referring to our LT1 Impala headers, there is an average gain of 15 HP over the shorty headers.
Price (long vs mid) - This is a hard one to answer. When we do the long tube headers we could build them a couple different ways. They could be made to bolt to the cat-back exhaust which would eliminate the converter and be sold as "off-road use only". The only benefit of doing this would be to allow the customer the means of bolting in a long header and not having to do any cutting, fitting or welding. But there would not be any room for a converter unless the cat-back exhaust was cut. At that point, we might as well make the header even longer, offer a hi-flow converter and head-pipe. (The head-pipe is typically the exhaust tubing from the stock cat converter to the stock muffler). In the case of the Solstice, the headpipe is a 2 1/2" mandrel bent tube. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it and no reason to replace it otherwise. The longer header/hi-flow converter would come with a short hook-up pipe, made of 2 1/2" exhaust tubing, which would bolt to the converter but would need to be fit to the stock exhaust by means of cutting, fitting and welding or clamping. As you can see the cost will be determined by what the customer orders: long tube only to replace stock cat converter and bolt-in. Or, long tube header with extended hook-up pipe to again replace the stock converter. Or a long tube header with hi-flow cat converter and hook-up pipe. If you look at what we offer for the Impala SS you will see we have left no stone unturned. We offer every conceivable combination of headers, tubular manifolds, hi-flow converters, etc. Depending on the demand from the Solstice owners, we can do the same. You guys and gals are the owners, tell us what you want and we'll do everything possible to bring it to market.
Gas mileage (long vs mid) - No way to give you a number here. Long tube headers allow the engine to run more efficient so, in theory, should allow more MPH over a shorty header. None of my 900+ B&D body customers running our headers have ever asked about the mileage increase when ordering. They all wanted more performance or had a broken exhaust manifold and wanted to replace it with something better.
Installation fees (long vs mid) - Again, which of the above choices will you, the customer, make? The mid-length headers we are offering now install very easy. 2 hours for a shop to do the install would be a long time. The longer headers with hi-flow converter and weld-in hook-up pipe should still only take 3 hours at the very most at a shop. So don't let the shops rape you guys!
If you are local to us we would so the install of our mid-length header for $50.00. A long tube header/converter combo with weld-in hook-up pipe, we would do it for $100.00.
