Well, I think the stock FE3 bar is 1.31 inches, hollow, so we'd just need to find out it's wall thickness.
On a side note, I've placed a call to Saner Performance who made a great bar for the S2000. He's going to get a bar from his guy at GM to see what it would take to make a new one.
I am playing e-mail tag with John at Saner. He has requested that I ship him my FE3 front bar. I probably will comply, but not until he and I have a phone conversation about what he plans to do. More as I get it.
__________________ Redline (pre-halt), Pearl, Black/Red
complete option list except auto, 3" MF cat-back,
painted calipers, owner installed power lock buttons
No updates other than I put the FE3 bar back on. The FE2 front bar helped the front stick better, but at the cost of rear grip, and the result was a slower car. Last Sunday with the FE3 bar back on I was much quicker. I also drilled an addition hole inboard of the existing hole. I was planning on using that set up today, but it's wet.
Heard nothing from Saner, but I'll try to contact them this week.
I wrote a letter to SCCA to change the sway bar ruling to allow a drover to address EITHER sway bar, but ONLY one.. When the rule was written (about the time of Fred Flintstone) many cars had NO bars, and usually only a front bar. Thinhgs have changed in the past decades.
Next event I'll be taking a couple wrenches to add a touch of front toe out in the front. It's helped on every other car I have raced.
__________________ Redline (pre-halt), Pearl, Black/Red
complete option list except auto, 3" MF cat-back,
painted calipers, owner installed power lock buttons
I wrote a letter to SCCA to change the sway bar ruling to allow a drover to address EITHER sway bar, but ONLY one.. When the rule was written (about the time of Fred Flintstone) many cars had NO bars, and usually only a front bar. Thinhgs have changed in the past decades.
Not trying to be a party pooper, but rather to set expectations: that rule's not going to change. It gets brought up by a couple of people every year, and is always dismissed. Adding more parts and adjustment allowances is not consistent with Stock's philosophy. Things have changed in the past decades, but were the Stock rules rewritten from scratch today, they would likely go the other way and remove all sway bar allowances altogether.
or if anyone knows of a place that custom fabricates rear bars for a gxp without the need for me to send in my current rear sway bar, please let me know
and if anyone here is in the process of procuring custom swaybars, can i get a set too?
something like at least +50% stiffness on the front and +100-150% stiffness on the rear or so (against stock gxp bars)
The consensus is not that a stiffer rear bar is needed.
It's that a stiffer front bar is needed (this is in the autocross forums). But in order for you to use it effectively, you would have needed an autocross alignment. The car will then go from an understeering pig to a neutral handling car with a slight amount of power oversteer.
The SCCA rules apply to more than GM cars. I floated this idea at an autocross today and all agreed. That said, the stock rules are a joke. Why? I think that single adjustable shocks, alignment, brake pads, and a few other items might be addressable, but things such as +/- offset, super light weight wheels, and particularly R-comps is a joke. The R-comps really has my goat. There really is no justification for that. But, now that this horse is out of the barn, it's too late. PedalFaster is correct. However, too many changes have been implemented at this point. But Hoosier and Kuhmo would go nuts if the A6's and V710's were no longer allowed in stock class. The limit of wear should be 140 minimum stock. But my point about sway bars have been missed, I think. If the cars have progressed, then the rules should stay on pace with automotive development.
I know I will catch heat over this, but - hey DILLIGAF!!!!!!!!!
Oh - btw, 1st in A/Stock class and FTD today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really.
__________________ Redline (pre-halt), Pearl, Black/Red
complete option list except auto, 3" MF cat-back,
painted calipers, owner installed power lock buttons
The 140 treadwear would do nothing to stop R-compounds. The only reason that Hoosier and Kumho haven't gone after the ST market yet is that there isn't enough money in it yet. However, the current crop of ST tires are just as expensive and wear out just as fast as Rs since they have to be shaved.
Autoxed my GXP for the first time yesterday and I too ran into the understeer problem. The only thing that seemed to help was to mash the throttle in places where I could which would counteract the understeer with a bit of power oversteer. However my car is bone stock, has not yet had an alignment (there is almost no camber in it now) and was on old Kumhos so there's obviously a lot more I can do. However I am worried after the absolute pasting Kevin Dietz and Fast Mike gave me in their Z0K's. They were both in the 40.9s and my best was a 43.3. The only good thing is that almost no one else could keep up with them either but it's not a good sign if I get straight-timed by that much. Any ideas?
Autoxed my GXP for the first time yesterday and I too ran into the understeer problem. The only thing that seemed to help was to mash the throttle in places where I could which would counteract the understeer with a bit of power oversteer. However my car is bone stock, has not yet had an alignment (there is almost no camber in it now) and was on old Kumhos so there's obviously a lot more I can do. However I am worried after the absolute pasting Kevin Dietz and Fast Mike gave me in their Z0K's. They were both in the 40.9s and my best was a 43.3. The only good thing is that almost no one else could keep up with them either but it's not a good sign if I get straight-timed by that much. Any ideas?
Yeah - first IGNORE their results. We have a guy named Ron Williams who almost always PAX's 1st in a G/S Mini which means he is clobbering nearly everyone at an event on raw time. ZOK's are some 300-400 pounds light than GXP's have better balance and prove that horsepower isn't everything. Second, Hoosiers help. Third, alignment Helps. Fourth, Evo schools help.
Realistically, if you were only 2.5 seconds back, you actually may be in pretty good shape. I don't know what you were racing before, but GXP/RL's seem to demand the same sort of smoothness that makes Camaros and Corvettes go well. After 7 autocrosses, a couple of test & tunes, and an Evo Challenge school, I am just starting to come to terms with my RL. And yesterday, I took FTD against a 120+ field, and A/Stock by over .5 seeconds in a 12 car class. Part of this came from wildly varying weather, and some people never saw ANY dry pavement. But some of the A/S guys had as much dry pavement as I did. I just managed to hit all my marks on the last run. You, too, will get to where you want to be. It will take some seat time.
__________________ Redline (pre-halt), Pearl, Black/Red
complete option list except auto, 3" MF cat-back,
painted calipers, owner installed power lock buttons
Yeah - first IGNORE their results. We have a guy named Ron Williams who almost always PAX's 1st in a G/S Mini which means he is clobbering nearly everyone at an event on raw time. ZOK's are some 300-400 pounds light than GXP's have better balance and prove that horsepower isn't everything. Second, Hoosiers help. Third, alignment Helps. Fourth, Evo schools help.
While I hope it doesn't sound like I am tooting my own horn but I guess I should point out that I have two ProSolo national championships (1999 in P5 and 2005 in HS) and usually can run right with either of them when we're driving the same car. In 2004 and 2005 I used to be able to run with and even beat them now and then with my old HS Audi 90 Quattro (yes even in the dry) so getting pasted in the GXP is not what I am looking for.
That said I'm not ready to put the GXP on Auto Trader just yet, thus my post looking for the collective wisdom as what will help and what people think of it's autox potential. If it doesn't work out, fine, I'll sell it and buy a Z0K, but for now I'd rather concentrate on trying to make the GXP work.
As for the Evo schools I am a big fan. I was a perennial also-ran at Nationals with lots of double-digit finishes until I took the Evo (then McKamey) school back in '98. It was quite an eye-opener to see what Tom Kotzian could do in my car and I guess it helped a bit given that I was 3rd that year in BS at Nationals and won my first ProSolo championship the following year, proof that even slow dogs can be taught new tricks :-).
Last edited by AlanBDahl : 05-28-2007 at 10:17 PM.
While I hope it doesn't sound like I am tooting my own horn but I guess I should point out that I have two ProSolo national championships (1999 in P5 and 2005 in HS) and usually can run right with either of them when we're driving the same car. In 2004 and 2005 I used to be able to run with and even beat them now and then with my old HS Audi 90 Quattro (yes even in the dry) so getting pasted in the GXP is not what I am looking for.
That said I'm not ready to put the GXP on Auto Trader just yet, thus my post looking for the collective wisdom as what will help and what people think of it's autox potential. If it doesn't work out, fine, I'll sell it and buy a Z0K, but for now I'd rather concentrate on trying to make the GXP work.
As for the Evo schools I am a big fan. I was a perennial also-ran at Nationals with lots of double-digit finishes until I took the Evo (then McKamey) school back in '98. It was quite an eye-opener to see what Tom Kotzian could do in my car and I guess it helped a bit given that I was 3rd that year in BS at Nationals that year and won my first ProSolo championship the following year, proof that even slow dogs can be taught new tricks :-).
Fair enough. Didn't know your background. I have plenty of wood, plastic, and glass from the Wash, Balt, Harrisburg areas. I am starting to get some of my touch back with the RL. Bottom line with the GXP/RL is that the gearing is a mess. The stock 245/45X18s are good for 57mph in second. ANY r-comps are going to shorten that. The A6 245/35X18 means about 54 mph. I have found that if I hit the rev limiter for more than a 3 count it may be worthwhile to short shift at about 5700 and let the torque work. A real case of "happy feet" happens as you switch from left braking to using all three pedals!! None of the r-comps are going to work well until some camber is cranked in. The basic characterists are still there , but at higher limits. Miles seems to think that the 295 A6's are the best choice. I don't know. I'm not crazy about 2-3 sets of tires a year, so I may try Hankooks. Don't know yet. Contrary to what some may say, a GXP/RL could be a local winner, but I think it will be an anomoly if someone takes a 1st at a national level in a 10-20 car class. Hasn't happened yet. Some national caliber guys here have taken a swing with my RL, and the best result is a local class winning time in a local event with some very good local talent that are mid-class at nationals in C4's and S2000s. AStocker has apparently bailed out of his GXP for a BoxsterS (I think thats what he is getting). If I get to the point where I can nail down some 1,2, 3 type finishes on a consistent basis, I may do the same. But first, I have to get to that plateau. As it is, I really like the car. Just hate the ratios.
__________________ Redline (pre-halt), Pearl, Black/Red
complete option list except auto, 3" MF cat-back,
painted calipers, owner installed power lock buttons
Alan,
We're running into the same learning curve you are. Also coming from from slower cars, we are learning to adjust our driving habits. With the slower cars we could smash the throttle and wait for the power to catch up, can't do that with the Soli. Also the car has tremendous grip, and no real bad habits, so we are still learning to exploit the grip and to trust the car. It's hard to tell the butt dyno that the car WILL make it where were would have been sure to spin before.
__________________
Spin or win, there's no glory for going slow!
Team Dynamics AX racing
2003 GSL, 2005 HSL, National Champion
2007 GXP ZOK Mean
Solo Performance Race catback
Rick Hendrick Pontiac
Solo Performance
CHARLES FRANK goldsmith
Me and my codriver have done four local events and one very wet, very cold test and tune. I am convinced that the GXP can be competitive on a national level, but it absolutely needs both a stiffer front bar and better shocks. And here's why:
The car has too little roll stiffness in the front. This is amplified by the soft (almost non-existant) low-speed damping the stock shocks exhibit. If you drive the car super smooth it can be fast, but once you overshoot a mark, it takes a really long time for the car to recover. Also, with the current alignment (which i'm not super happy with) the car exhibits some loss of rear traction under power, which the stiffer bar will also help.
I really don't you can compare the ZOKs and GXPs they are really different animals, and what works on the ZOKs may not work at all on the GXPs. I think the GXP needs to be stiffer than it currently is and the shocks and bar will help that.
Also the car really needs to have a good alignment.
__________________
If you can't be a good example, be a terrible warning!
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Current Stable:
1998 Toyota FJ62 "Bruce"
2006 VW Mk5 GTI DSG "Ingraine"
2007 Mean GXP, Team Zissou!
Me and my codriver have done four local events and one very wet, very cold test and tune. I am convinced that the GXP can be competitive on a national level, but it absolutely needs both a stiffer front bar and better shocks. And here's why:
The car has too little roll stiffness in the front. This is amplified by the soft (almost non-existant) low-speed damping the stock shocks exhibit. If you drive the car super smooth it can be fast, but once you overshoot a mark, it takes a really long time for the car to recover. Also, with the current alignment (which i'm not super happy with) the car exhibits some loss of rear traction under power, which the stiffer bar will also help.
