Control Arm Bushings... what do we need?

[rlhammon]

At some point I should pick up a service manual

but not having one handy... does anyone have the specs (dimensions) for the control arm bushings?

I've checked the suspension sub-forum and *bumped* an old post in there where Alex talked about his development with Energy Suspension. I'm trying to go a different route than the polyurethane... but I need dimensions to see if I can get them made.

Thanks.

[Small Dealer]

Originally Posted by rlhammon At some point I should pick up a service manual but not having one handy... does anyone have the specs (dimensions) for the control arm bushings?

That type of information is not in the Solstice Service Manual, or even the parts catalogs.

The service manual doesn't even have a repalcement procedure for the Control Arm Bushings, just the arm itself.

[rlhammon]

Originally Posted by Small Dealer That type of information is not in the Solstice Service Manual, or even the parts catalogs. The service manual doesn't even have a repalcement procedure for the Control Arm Bushings, just the arm itself.

Makes a heck of a lot of sense seeing as how the bushings are inside the A-arm.

Any way to track down what other vehicles these A-arms are in? That might help me convince a manufacturer that there is a larger market than just our Kappa's.

[Small Dealer]

Originally Posted by rlhammon Any way to track down what other vehicles these A-arms are in? That might help me convince a manufacturer that there is a larger market than just our Kappa's.

The control arms as numbered for the Kappas are Kappa specific. Couldn't find any other applications.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by rlhammon At some point I should pick up a service manual but not having one handy... does anyone have the specs (dimensions) for the control arm bushings? I've checked the suspension sub-forum and *bumped* an old post in there where Alex talked about his development with Energy Suspension. I'm trying to go a different route than the polyurethane... but I need dimensions to see if I can get them made. Thanks.

What are you trying to do? If you want poly bushings, Energy Suspension is the only real game in town. I have installed them and can help guide you through this if you like. PM if you like. There ARE some cautions and pit falls to watch out for.

[rlhammon]

Originally Posted by snaponbob What are you trying to do? If you want poly bushings, Energy Suspension is the only real game in town. I have installed them and can help guide you through this if you like. PM if you like. There ARE some cautions and pit falls to watch out for.

As I said.. I'm trying to get something else made other than polyurethane. Every experience I've had with them they squeak like crazy. Seeing as I drive the car as a daily driver I won't be able to stand the squeak.

That dang cold weather squeak on the front sway bar was bad enough... I couldn't handle the noise if every bushing in all four A arms was squeaking.

Maybe they aren't squeaking... maybe they will be fine... but at this point I'm looking to get something else made, or machine up my own. I'm just trying not to buy a set of Energy Suspension bushings to get dimensions... that's all. I can't use the stock bushings as it looks like I have to tear them out, and they aren't a part I can order.

[rlhammon]

Originally Posted by Small Dealer The control arms as numbered for the Kappas are Kappa specific. Couldn't find any other applications.

Thank you for taking the time and looking this up. I was hoping it might be shared somewhere with the SAAB's, as I have some contacts in that area... but alas, another unique part!

I do appreciate all the work you do for us on this forum... I don't know if everyone really knows how many things you look up, track, and answer for so many of us here... and you do it all without ever seeming to ask for anything in return.

[snaponbob]

I installed my poly stuff in January. After 5000 miles not a sound from the control arms. The system is completely different than how the sway bar works. The bushings go in the control arms, sleeves go in the bushings, and bolts go in the sleeves. JUST LIKE THE OEM SET UP !!!!!! (Over simplistic, but that's how it is.) Basically, with poly control arm bushings, there is EXACTLY the same chance of noise as with the stock bushings. That said, they are all that is available, but they are TOO simple, and should be split instead of one piece bushing. The absolute slickest system I have ever seen is produced by Pfadt. Scroll down and see the assembly animation. New Corvette Control Arm Polyurethane Bushing Kit | Pfadt Race Engineering And, NO, they are not interested in doing anything for the Kappas. Already been WAY down that road with them.

[rlhammon]

Originally Posted by snaponbob The absolute slickest system I have ever seen is produced by Pfadt. Scroll down and see the assembly animation. New Corvette Control Arm Polyurethane Bushing Kit | Pfadt Race Engineering And, NO, they are not interested in doing anything for the Kappas. Already been WAY down that road with them.

I wouldn't say they aren't interested in doing anything for the Kappa's... instead I'd say they choose to focus on the Camaro this past season.

I'm familiar with them, as I am sure many others who lurk/post here are as well.

I'm looking at getting something similar to their offering done up this winter for the Kappa's. Hence the need for the dimensions off a set of bushings. I'm hoping maybe someone has a set they have yet to install, and we can go from there.

Otherwise, it's wait until I put my car down for it's winter nap, pull everything apart, and see if I can get something built before I need to drive the car for testing / tuning come spring time. If nothing is built by then... well, Energy Suspension here I come.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by rlhammon I wouldn't say they aren't interested in doing anything for the Kappa's... instead I'd say they choose to focus on the Camaro this past season. I'm familiar with them, as I am sure many others who lurk/post here are as well. I'm looking at getting something similar to their offering done up this winter for the Kappa's. Hence the need for the dimensions off a set of bushings. I'm hoping maybe someone has a set they have yet to install, and we can go from there. Otherwise, it's wait until I put my car down for it's winter nap, pull everything apart, and see if I can get something built before I need to drive the car for testing / tuning come spring time. If nothing is built by then... well, Energy Suspension here I come.

They built a set of shock for a Sky owner in Virginia, so they DO have the plans for them. They just WILL NOT build any more. One and done. They KNOW the numbers are just not there for them to play around with Kappas.

Once you pull just ONE corner (do yourself a favor and do a front one - they are easier) you'll see what I am talking about. Oh, when you put it back together, torque it properly and then beat the hell out of the car, then REPEAT. Trust me. I know.

[mkriebs]

If you could pop one of the A-Arms off and measure the CAB's I could maybe get you a solution. In the Cobalt world, a vendor called over the top performance has brought some spherical control arm bushings to market. I picked up a set and have yet to install them, so I could get some measurements to see if they would work. My bet is... the very well may. I can't imagine GM using a ton of different sizes throughout their model line.

These particular CAB's are the same spec as used on the Cobalt Time Attack car, a very well designed and engineered piece.

[rlhammon]

Originally Posted by mkriebs If you could pop one of the A-Arms off and measure the CAB's I could maybe get you a solution. In the Cobalt world, a vendor called over the top performance has brought some spherical control arm bushings to market. I picked up a set and have yet to install them, so I could get some measurements to see if they would work. My bet is... the very well may. I can't imagine GM using a ton of different sizes throughout their model line. These particular CAB's are the same spec as used on the Cobalt Time Attack car, a very well designed and engineered piece.

I'm wondering if we might just be better off getting a set of Energy Suspension poly's and using those for measurements.

My hope was that maybe Alex had the dimensions still from his development work with them. I've looked on the install directions, but no dimensions are listed.

If all goes well here shortly I'll be doing some coilovers and I can pull the A-arms off then.

[mkriebs]

Well, I am not familiar with the energy suspension poly's. But the OTTP spherical bushings have an aluminum surround. Now sure if the poly's have that or if they use a stock one. Any pics of the poly ones?

[DrJones]

I'll have to take a look and see what I can find.
The spherical bushings would be great. But atleast in Stock and Street Prepared classing (for SCCA) they are not allowed so either Delrin or Poly are the options. and delrin can cause lots of suspension binde if there is any non-major axis rotation which I think the Double A arm suspension on the Kappas will avoid this (a good example of where delrin will not work is the WRX rear multi link suspension).

EDIT: I've found my pics and such---

I think Bob has mentioned it earlier but you need to make sure you get new straight inner sleeves for the LCA bushings. Here is why:

And the dimensions of the OE sleeve (note - all measurements were with a scale and maynot be exact, use for reference only):


The big problem I had with the first bushings was my LCA slipping back over the bushing lips when braking hard.
Front LCA Forward Bushing:

Front LCA Rearward Bushing:


Energy then sent me some custom poured bushings with a stiffer material. the problem was the lips on bushings were all the same thickness. which will not work on our cars. See pictures below:
Front Right LCA - Forward Bushing.

Front Right LCA - Rearward Bushings.

You can see that the rear bushing is centered but the front bushing is pushed too far forward and there is no room to put the washer in.

Energy then sent me some of the extra special poured bushings with un-cut ends (i.e the lips were ~ 1/2 thick!). I then used a belt sander to get the correct lip dimensions.
I can't find those dimensions right now but here is what I measured for the chassi points on the car. If you pull your LCA off you can get those measurements easily and calculate the lip dimensions easily.


On a Side Note: Energey Suspension was a great company to work with. They put customer satisfaction at the top of there list and were quick to respond and ship new parts.

[snaponbob]

When I received my ES kit, it had 2 two few sleeves. The instructions stated that two rear insert sleeves from the rear lower control arms were to be re-used. When I called ES about the "pregnant" sleeves I was surprised to find that they were NOT aware of them !! As we discussed this it became obvious that a) they developed the EXISTING kits around the FIRST YEAR Kappas which were FE2 Sols and they did NOT have these sleeves. The pregnant sleeves became part of the FE3 suspension (they tighten the compliance and movement of those suspension pivots). GM then apparently decided not to have different part number LCA's so they went in all rear LCA's. Anyway, they said they would create some new sleeves for me and send them. Since it was going to take some days I didn't want the car apart that long so a friend machined them to fit to get the project finished.

It was determined that I had an old inventory kit and in more current sets there are more sleeves. It is still VERY wise to make sure you have enough sleeves and that they are the correct sizes BEFORE you start tearing apart the car!!! I truly wish these were two piece (split) poly bushings and said so in the call. They agreed that this would probably would have been better, but due to the low volume it would be too expensive to re-engineer the kit. Pfadt makes the coolest poly bushing set I have ever seen but they flatly stated that they would not build them for Kappas as they are too busy with C5 and 6 Corvettes and new Camaros. Bummer. The ES sets are perfectly fine, not real expensive, and they have proven themselves to be very helpful.