I've searched here and want to get a definative thread on various alignment specs. Let start with the Z0K specs. Post these here please! Maybe a sticky of this thread would help the forum.
DO GXP VERSUS BASE SOLSTICE MODELS MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN SPECS? Please let us know.
And then personal specs and list your reasons for deviating from stock or Z0K. Bring back old post concepts if you feel this would be helpful.
Please share what you can. I have kw v3's going on and want to get an alignment to my preferences, based this thread, experiences and preferences.
In my searches I note that a Digital Angle Gauge CH-47960 is needed for rear caster measurement. Can this be rented from any GM dealership? I'd assume I want do to this... correct?
There is no one way to align your car.
Hoosier and Kumho's, which front bar, what are your shock specs, etc all have a bearing on your settings.
Your driving style and/or preference(s) will affect your settings.
GXP, ZOK's etc all want a little different settings.
How cold or hot it is along with course designs will affect your settings since we sometimes change rear toe on the fly.
Asphalt or concrete?
Etc.
All that said, go for 2.5 neg front with middle of the range in caster and zero toe and 1.6ish rear camber with middle of the range caster with zero toe.
Oversteer too much? Increase rear toe in.
I have not had to do the rear toe out thing or front toe out thing with this car.
That's about as definitive as it can get! There is no such thing as THE perfect setting for every car and driver. Mike's specs are a good basic ballpark starting point for autocrossing on race tires. I have no idea how it will work with your Kw V3s, I'm not even sure what those are, but they definitely aren't race tires. You will have to do what the rest of us have done when dialing in a new setup, make a best guess then test and adjust from there. Make one change at a time and learn what happens. We had our car major realigned 5 times last season, and are still dialing it in.
Yes you do need the gauge or something similar to set/check the rear caster, as well as someone experienced in using it. Dealer rent it to whom and why? Unless you have access to an alignment rack the gauge would be useless. I know very few people capable of doing a proper alignment in their garage, and only a few alignment techs at dealers versed in the correct use of the gauge. oint thru that at our dealership at the moment, the previous tech left and I need to train another in the use of the gauge. The worse is the old school tech who assumes he already knows how to use it without carefully following the directions.
__________________
Spin or win, there's no glory for going slow!
Team Dynamics AX racing
2003 GSL, 2005 HSL, National Champion
2007 GXP ZOK Mean
Solo Performance Race catback
Rick Hendrick Pontiac
Solo Performance
CHARLES FRANK goldsmith
You are chasing something that is not there. You are not getting to know the car before you are changing it again.
???
Alignment 1: just after we got the car.
Alignment 2: found alignment 1 to be too conservative, wore edges off new A6s
Alignment 3: revised alignment 2 based on input from "very knowlegable source" and more info on using caster gauge as well as installing new shocks.
Alignment 4: installed ZOK pkg.
Alignment 5: tweaked for nationals based on tire temps and as part of NC prep after ZOK settled.
There were other changes made that also impacted handling and alignment balance.
__________________
Spin or win, there's no glory for going slow!
Team Dynamics AX racing
2003 GSL, 2005 HSL, National Champion
2007 GXP ZOK Mean
Solo Performance Race catback
Rick Hendrick Pontiac
Solo Performance
CHARLES FRANK goldsmith
???
Alignment 1: just after we got the car.
Alignment 2: found alignment 1 to be too conservative, wore edges off new A6s
Alignment 3: revised alignment 2 based on input from "very knowlegable source" and more info on using caster gauge as well as installing new shocks.
Alignment 4: installed ZOK pkg.
Alignment 5: tweaked for nationals based on tire temps and as part of NC prep after ZOK settled.
There were other changes made that also impacted handling and alignment balance.
Changes 2,3,4, and 5 - should not have been "Major realignments." I don't know what you consider major - it sounds like you touched the alignment 5 times. Even on alignment #5, you say it was tweaked... tweaked =/= major. When we installed our Z0K package, all we did was move the toe back to our pre-Z0K number.
Changes 2,3,4, and 5 - should not have been "Major realignments." I don't know what you consider major - it sounds like you touched the alignment 5 times. Even on alignment #5, you say it was tweaked... tweaked =/= major. When we installed our Z0K package, all we did was move the toe back to our pre-Z0K number.
Major = any time the car goes on the rack.
Each to their own, if you were satisfied just resetting the toe then who am I to tell you you need to do something different? Same with sitting in the car when it's aligned or doing it with strings and a level rather than a laser alignment machine, or buying custom built shocks or data recorder.
I'm probably more anal than most, but I like to be sure the car is as well prepared as I can make it (especially when my sponsor is footing the bills).
__________________
Spin or win, there's no glory for going slow!
Team Dynamics AX racing
2003 GSL, 2005 HSL, National Champion
2007 GXP ZOK Mean
Solo Performance Race catback
Rick Hendrick Pontiac
Solo Performance
CHARLES FRANK goldsmith
Thx for the help so far. As mentioned in the OP, this thread is about collating info on alignments, not a definitive alignment per se. That was why it asked for any reasons with variances.
Please give full info. Middle of the range caster isn't going to help me get an alignment if I'm not going to a dealer. I don't know what stock is, and I have to dig out what Z0K is on this site. Front and rear specs please 2. Something like this:
What I can figure out of Mikes post.
Camber
Front -2.5
Rear -1.6
Caster
Front ??
Rear ??
Toe
Front 0
Rear 0
My GXP is a 2nd vehicle for the good weather months and days here. It can be driven daily, but a lower miler for fun. And KW V3's are high end coil overs for the car. Independently adjustable for compression/rebound and ride height variable. I'm signing up for an AX school at the end of the month.
I still would like to know if a GXP and NA have different alignment specs, and if it is possible to rent a rear caster tool from the dealer. Do all dealers automatically have this tool??
I still would like to know if a GXP and NA have different alignment specs,
Yes and no. They can run the same numbers and be very close.
However... The rear camber on a GXP can be less than an NA in order to get more forward grip on corner exit. You can run more relative toe-in in the rear to control power on oversteer. The GXP Z0K seems to sit lower in the front so you can get a little more camber there (to the point of actually running too much camber!).
You have to understand that once you are in the ballpark, alignment settings are personal preference. I'm a bit ham-fisted on the wheel but have great footwork. So I tend to run (relative) a little more toe-in in the front and more neutral to toe out in the back. My co-driver is better with his hands so he likes a little more toe-out in the front.
Caster:
Front- sacrifice caster to get the camber, anything over 6 is good if same on both sides.
rear 4.0 or same on both sides.
Now throwing in the coilovers??? Depends on where you set the perches, the spring rates and heights, and the shock settings...
Now you've thrown in a whole new set of variables! Most of us serious racers here are running in SCCA stock class and are using the stock ZOK suspension bits except shocks. My shocks have adjustable spring perches, but are locked at stock height per the rules. I'm afraid you are on your own now.
Andy Hollis once said every change you make is a rope you can hang yourself with. Coilovers are a whole basket of ropes.
__________________
Spin or win, there's no glory for going slow!
Team Dynamics AX racing
2003 GSL, 2005 HSL, National Champion
2007 GXP ZOK Mean
Solo Performance Race catback
Rick Hendrick Pontiac
Solo Performance
CHARLES FRANK goldsmith
Went with a fairly road friendly alignment. Got these suggested specs from someone pretty knowledgeable with the Kappa suspensions. Since I had my diff replaced I haven't gotten to push it yet but I can already feel a good bit of improvement.
Camber
Front: -1.5
Back: -1.0
Caster
Front: 8.0
Back: -4.0
Toe
0
Values before alignment Camber
Front: -0.8/-0.9
Back: -0.7/-0.7
Your alignment is fine for the street IMO and conservative for hard driving. Post how it goes for you. I'm liking the -2 degrees front camber on the street. I'll go more if I do autocross.
Your alignment is fine for the street IMO and conservative for hard driving. Post how it goes for you. I'm liking the -2 degrees front camber on the street. I'll go more if I do autocross.
kw.....
Even with my primarily street alignment I've noticed a fairly decent increase in grip when cornering while driving on the stock tires. Looking forward to see how it does on the track on my better race tires.
