just a question, how much better are "r" compounds, compared to ...dirrezza, gs-d3, asymmetric f1's, ect.
i'm relatively new to autoxing, & put the direzza's, it was like a light switch was turned on,
but i had the sra's, so no brainer, but how much better are the "r" compounds, or is my driving skill at this point more important then the overall improvement on the tires? i've autox about a dozen times so far this year.
i see a lot of guys changing out their tires, but what a pain, to bring them in a solstice, if'n you know what i mean.

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mods : hahn turbo,cat back

Without a doubt "R" compound tires are better. How much better... well, that's debatable and I won't even attempt to use a rule of thumb because there are too many factors which influence it unless you try both tires on the same course on the same car.

Anyway.. I just switched from the stock GXP tires (Eagle F1's) over to the Bridgestone RE-01R's. In PAX indexing I've been running around 25th to 30th in a 80 - 100 car field on the Goodyears. Switched over to the Bridgestones and I moved to 6th in PAX and picked up about 1.5 seconds over the folks I'm usually near in PAX. I was the only non-R compound tires in the top 10. This was a week to week change, but all other cars stayed on their same tires.

Moving to R compounds are great... they will help the car, but learn to outdrive the tires you have first. Also, what's the incentive to move to R compounds anyway? Are you competing for fun, for trophies, contingency money / tires? If there is no reward (unless personal satisfaction is worth it to you), why spend the money? You are talking $300 each for a R compound Hoosier / Kuhmo in the 18" sizes. That's a lot of cash to toss out there.. but if the reward is worth it to you, then spend the money.

Personally... I upgraded tires only because RMR was selling them cheap on here. I'm spending less than you would on two tires to take a Evo Driving School... that's going to make me a lot faster than the new tires will, and it should last longer too!

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thanks' for the info, we autox for the fun of it, i just didn't want the other competitors to have that big of an advantage over my son & myself, we've taken a couple of training schools, & would love it if evo came here, i heard rumor that they might come to b.c., so i guess what your saying is learn to drive before minimal upgrade on the tires.

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mods : hahn turbo,cat back

In general yes... most times the nut behind the wheel is the loose one and needs the most work (that is meant in fun, not a criticism of you or your son at all)... not parts on the car.

If you want to be nationally competitive, well, you need to do everything that those competitors have done to the their car. If you want to be locally competitive, you might be able to out drive your competition with less modifications to your car. That's generally the cheaper and longer lasting effect as it transfers to any car, unlike modifications.

Post up some results of local autox events and lets see where you stand. Race tires will give you more grip... but if you don't drive to the point of using all of your tire now... then you'll just have sticker tires you aren't using the full capacity of.. and well, that's a waste of money.

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Being new to auto-x with my Classic Solstice I wanted better tires but I knew my skill level didn't warrant R compounds at the time. I got everything I needed to get going, tools, trailer, extra rims, and went with the Azenis RT-615 as the tire choice to start with. Once I've ruined those tires I'll move to the R compounds. I always hear people say 2~3 seconds difference once you really know what you're doing.

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Its always fun to let one of the pro's/instructors drive your car, it'll give you a good idea how much more seat time you need.

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1993 talon tsi awd - stock on the outside, modded on the inside
2007 solstice gxp - Solo Performance 3" mach exhaust + hiflow cat - dyno sheet

he did, i need more time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in my car too,..... the nerv.

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mods : hahn turbo,cat back

I just got back from the Atlanta Tour and Pro. My co-driver won three tires from those two events. I was in trophies at the Tour and put up fastest time in class on Sunday.

I buck the trend when it comes to advise and r-comps. To me, there are two types of drivers, ones that are wusses and heros. Wusses work up, the heros work down. Once you are overdriving the car, I think it is time to get Rs - that can be in as little as 3 events. Wusses take longer to get to that point if ever. When you are consistently overdriving the car, it's time to make the car faster.

Are they worth it? They are the crack cocaine of autocross. I budget more for tires in a year than I do for food. They are 2+ seconds faster per 60 seconds of course than the best street tires. 2 seconds faster than if you were already driving 100% on the tires you were on. We were pulling 1.3 to 1.4 G in corners this past weekend on a fully prepped car. If you have already autocrossed 12 times this year, you have the bug and should be seriously considering a second set of tires/wheels.

Rob just summarized why people spend all day standing around waiting to run in anger for about 3-4 minutes better than almost anyone I've seen before. The ones that have the bug know what he means. I always say that if you're not running over the bases of cones and damn near out of control, you're not really autocrossing to your car's potential. IF you feel you are, and it's fun, buy some sticky tires. It's a revelation.

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'07 Solstice Z0K

I always recommend novices stay on street tires for a season or at least 10 events and a school. Street tires have several advantages that teach you to drive better quicker: they are less forgiving of being over driven (to me over driving is where you exceed the traction circle of the tires due to poor technique) and will quckly let you know it by pushing like a pig or spinning out. With R compounds when you exceed the slip angle you leave expensive rubber on the pavement. You can flatspot and destroy a set of R compounds with a couple spins or brake lockups. On most surfaces street tires will also give you audible warning you are reaching their limits by squealing. R compounds don't. You can tell when your driving is reaching the limits of the tires when you are lightly sqealing them on almost every manuever. R compounds quietly leave themselves on the pavement until you exceed ther limits and break loose. Street tires are a lot cheaper than R compounds and you can drive to and from events on them. R compounds mean a major investment in not only tires but also support equipment like extra wheels, ways to transport the tires and equipment to and from events, jack, lug wrench, torque wrench, etc. Some street tires can approach R compound traction, look at what brands and series tires the quick guys in the street tire classes are running (the national street tire classes like STS STS2 STU STX, not the local pax class) those guys are running pretty close to the R compound class times.
Finally to really take advantage of R compounds you must do the whole upfit allowed to the suspension: adjustable racing shocks, the right sway bars, racing alignment, etc. with the expenses and variables that brings. It's interesting to see locals putting R compounds on their car that has a street alignment, worn out shocks, 100# of sound equipment, leather interior, loaded with acessories and even an automatic transmission, plus their buddy in the passenger seat. Why bother with the tires? Changing tires will not suddenly take a hack driver to the top of the class.

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Spin or win, there's no glory for going slow!
Team Dynamics AX racing
2003 GSL, 2005 HSL, National Champion
2007 GXP ZOK Mean
Solo Performance Race catback
Rick Hendrick Pontiac
Solo Performance
CHARLES FRANK goldsmith

And Charles just reiterated every r-compound myth of the last 5-7 years.

I'll start on price - The hot street tire is the Bridgestone @ 245ea. Hoosiers are 282ea. and Kumhos are 286. So for $160 more of $1000 in tires, you can have R-compounds. Street tires are not a lot cheaper. You also must add to that getting the street tires shaved at $30-$50each. Otherwise the tread will chunk. So the hot street tires end up costing the same as the r-compounds.

Wear - Sure, spins will do a number on tires but how many spins do you really do? 4-5 on a set of tires? ABS takes care of flat spots because of brake lock-up (and what car doesn't have ABS nowadays - that's how old that myth is). Wear was a major issue about 5 years back when tires would only last 40 runs or so. My co-driver and I were still very high in PAX in the Philadelphia region on 100+ run Hoosier A6s. And again, the 'stones will heat cycle out after about that many runs too. The difference is that the 'stones will still have tread left giving the illusion of lasting longer but they will not be sticky anymore.

Less forgiving - The tires do not give you much warning when you are approaching the limit of adhesion, so what? You have to learn where that limit is whether you buy the tires now or next year. The longer you spend on street tires, the deeper ingrained the lower limit will be when you want to change them.

The whole suspension upgrade isn't exactly true. You should get a $60 aggressive alignment. But even that is not going to stop you from getting the increased grip from an r-compound. I'll make an analogy to putting 300hp drivetrain in a Civic. It will go faster than a stock Civic but there are other things that you could do to make use of that much more power.

Where KK has it right is the need for support of some kind - a tire trailer or such to carry the extra tires and tools.

I would have gone to R compounds this year except that RMR was selling the 'stones RE-01R's so cheap.. it was about half the cost compared to Hoosiers.

I'm thinking of picking up a set of R compounds and running nationals this year. I did rather well at the Evo school this weekend. I wasn't way off from the start, but picked up A TON of great useful information that I was able to actually use, refine (a small amount), and execute right there over the weekend. If I can remember the tools they taught me, I shouldn't embarrass myself at Nationals.. so it might be worth the effort!

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You won't get this on street tires:

Sweet pic Rob!

On topic...
My local 'mentor' is also from the school of thought that it is better to learn on R comps and will give plenty of good reasons why. That said, he also owns a tire shop

I ended up going with Falken Azenis 615 255/40-18s for this season at least 1) because I got them for $606 delivered and 2) didn't want to drive to events on R comps and no tire trailer/transport, yet...

Definitely want to move to the Rs next season, though I may be hoping and praying they make it a whole season if I have to drive on them to events...

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'06 Mysterious: traded in 3/18/2008 for a GXP

'07 Mysterious GXP #621AS: Leather w/ Red Stitching, A/C, CD w/ MP3, Sport Pedals, Stubby, MODA MD2 19" Rims w/ Kumho Ecsta SPTs, Stubby, De-silvered, Black Eyes, Tinted Fogs, Side-markers, Tails, and Back-ups, Black Gauge, A/C, and Shifter Bezels, Debadged Rear, Chiclets Removed, K&N Air Filter, Solo Performance Catback Race Exhaust, racing on stock wheels with Falken Azenis 615s 255/40-18s

OFF TOPIC WARNING:

If you are looking for a trailer and have a Harbor Freight near you.. check t