This is actually on a HHR SS, but the platform is too new for the techs to have a clue what's wrong. Not much help on the HHR SS forums either since I probably have the highest mileage SS out there right now. I thought I'd bring it to the experts here that know the turbo Ecotec.
I'm at 6595 miles now and I've had the same CEL occur 3 times now (started around 5200 miles the first time). I can drive it around on trips less than 100 miles with no issues, but if I drive more than 100 miles straight, my HHR gradually starts boosting less and less until it won't boost at all and the CEL 2178 comes on (rich condition). The third time CEL 101 was also stored (MAS). 3 seperate dealers are clueless. GM keeps giving the techincians lame things to check for (leaks, lose hoses, etc.) and won't let them actually try and diagnose the issue. The last tech actually tried to convince the GM tech line that the problem has to stem from the wastegate and/or ecu but was denied his request.
Personally, I think it's ECU related and the ECU is either lowering the wastegate pressure or cutting electronic throttle, hence not letting it boost. In lower gears I can usually get it to boost somewhat normally after it cools down, but 4th and 5th usually have no or very low boost.
Again, I know this isn't a GXP or Redline, but I'm hoping you guys might be able to help a distant cousin out.
So can I assume that they have actually checked the hoses and the clamps? The clamp up by the throttle body can often look tight but be loose enough to leak. A lot of folks have replaced all the factory clamps with T-Bolt style that stay tight.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonboyb
I'm at 6595 miles now and I've had the same CEL occur 3 times now (started around 5200 miles the first time). I can drive it around on trips less than 100 miles with no issues, but if I drive more than 100 miles straight, my HHR gradually starts boosting less and less until it won't boost at all and the CEL 2178 comes on (rich condition). The third time CEL 101 was also stored (MAS). 3 seperate dealers are clueless. GM keeps giving the techincians lame things to check for (leaks, lose hoses, etc.) and won't let them actually try and diagnose the issue. The last tech actually tried to convince the GM tech line that the problem has to stem from the wastegate and/or ecu but was denied his request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike
So can I assume that they have actually checked the hoses and the clamps?
One of the reasons TAC maybe recommending what they are recommending, is that an ECM issue is not a listed possible cause of a condition that would set a P2178.
As JustMike asked, are we to assume that all the stuff has been checked? And was it checked warm, like after a 100 mile drive, or just setting in the shop?
Did they perfom any tests to check the integrity of the charge air cooler system? If so, did they use the Duramax Diesel Charge Air Cooler Tester J 46091? Did they follow the recommended procedure in document id # 2033062, to look for leaks?
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Last edited by Small Dealer : 04-21-2008 at 09:16 AM.
One of the reasons TAC maybe recommending what they are recommending, is that an ECM issue is not a listed possible cause of a condition that would set a P2178.
As JustMike asked, are we to assume that all the stuff has been checked? And was it checked warm, like after a 100 mile drive, or just setting in the shop?
Did they perfom any tests to check the integrity of the charge air cooler system? If so, did they use the Duramax Diesel Charge Air Cooler Tester J 46091? Did they follow the recommended procedure in document id # 2033062, to look for leaks?
It was checked just after the code was thrown the first time, like within 15 minutes. I actually requested they pressure test the system, but I don't know what they used. Good info thanks.
our LNF comes with T-bolts just after the turbo and has hose clamps on the intercooler. The clamps Justmike is referring to are after the intercooler pipe and right at the intake of the engine. Those are the ones that we have issues with.
If it is stopping boosting, it is very likely the MAP sensor in the manifold, that is what "talks" to the ECM and tells it to reduce boost, it may be seeing a false over boost signal. I would check the IAT in the driver side intercooler pipe and clean the MAF as well, the ECM can only process what is input if the data is wrong, it's response will be wrong. GIGO, garbage in garbage out. Good luck!
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Let me say this to ALL our members here that probably have not seen the LNF on the new HHR SS.
The IC pipe going to the throtle body from the IC is made of plastic.
I can not remember what the HOT side looks like.
Also the turbo is against the fire wall on the car, not very friendly to work on.
I agree with SD that a pressure test should be in order to determine if there are any leaks in the system.
I also agree with lil goat that the MAP sensor needs to be checked.
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Where are you located at?
Maybe someone local to you can take a look (no touchy - warranty) to see what's going on.
Also having a logger record before, during and after this CEL to see the reduction in boost along with temps would answer many of the questions we would have.
I have EFILive with a 1 GIG data logger in so-cali I can loan out 'possibly' to do some logging.
I think that dashhawk can log too, but I don't know how many parameters?
Also Innovate Motorsports sells a new OBDII reader (OT-1) for $150. It may not fully support the ECU, but it does support CAN and generic OBDII PIDs. If you have a laptop you can log a bunch of parameters all the same.
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Thanks for the advice guys. I'm in GA and own an engine machine shop. I've been building turbo vehicles since the early 90's. I've pressure tested the charge lines myself since my last dealer visit, from the turbo outlet to the intake manifold, with no pressure loss. Since the GM tech line keeps telling them that a CEL PO2178 has to be caused by a leak or restriction, they are basically telling me there's something there that I've done, and I have not touched this vehicle since day 1. They even accused me of putting on a high flow air filter. To add insult to injury, I took it to another dealer and when they pulled it up, my local dealer has left the case open and they don't want to work on it either. They tell me I have ot take it back to my local dealer since it's still listed as open. I even asked my dealer to let me drive the car on a trip with a vehicle recorder device installed and they refused.
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Jonboy,When the dtc sets has the tech reviewed the freeze frame data associated with the code.Sometimes that data will lead you to the problem.Also,check for tsb's on a possible reflash for this symptom.
The HHR actually has 3 t-bolt clamps from the factory (at the turbo outlet and both IC ends).
