False dyno reports from magnaflow

[CenturionAVRE]

What are those screenshots for?

[RPIpower]

Originally Posted by CenturionAVRE What are those screenshots for?

As perris was saying, there is a restriction on the amount of power/torque your pcm will allow. Those are screen shots of us tuning the sky. You need to increase the limits for you to be able to make any significant increase in power.

[brentil]

Originally Posted by perris surprised you would say this...our ecu restricts torque, it will pull timing and booste...without an ecu tune you're not gonna see too much of anything no matter what you do

We've proven over and over that simple mods like just doing the exhaust show real gains that stay over time. I's not until you get to more complex upgrades that it starts to limit the larger gains.

[Jack B]

Originally Posted by RPIpower I just got off the phone with Richard at Magnaflow. He put me on hold and spoke to their engineering department and they told him its more of a 22hp gain. Guys, really, I am not here to argue. We sell Magnaflow products and I just want to make sure OUR customers are not informed or given false hopes. I've been dynoing cars for 9 years now (on both dynojet and not dyno dynamics) and I ask the same thing to the customers each time. "How much power are you expecting?" Its sad because they were always told one thing when making a purchase for mods then are dissappointed when they dont see what they expected. The key to our success is being honest with our customers. Now you guys were just told 30hp, and Rich just checked with Engineering and they told me 22hp. LOL, which is it? First 6, then 30, now 22? Anyone with a Magnaflow exhaust can come dyno. I have atleast 5 redline base runs for you to compare them to. Those are strong words John. If anything your information is misleading and pulled right out of the riceboy archives. We've been selling Magnaflow/Carsound products for almost 9 years now so there is no reason for us to mislead our customers. How many of you have ever tuned a car in your life? Typically exhaust or muffler shops are just that...muffler/exhaust shops. They dont tune cars nor do they build them. The Skys have torque management and limits. See below: The pcm needs to be tuned or else the gains will be compromised. Here is another screen shot: You guys are taking it personally and you shouldnt. The attacks on me only show that some people might feel threatened by me. Either that or they dont want facts given out.

Please believe me, this is an honest question, not an attack. Those screen shots of the software drop-downs, what exactly are those, even HPTuner has not found the torque-management code in the GXP ECu and they have experience with very similar products. I don't understand the posts, if they are from another ECU, for what purpose? If they are from the GXP, have you successfully turned off engine management? I think the post is confusing for everyone viewing - once again I am just looking for clarification.

[birdliver]

Originally Posted by GOINGSOLO Hi Bird. Going by memory the Street Race dyno results were about 3-4 wheel HP lower than the Race kit. I have looked for the Street Race results once before but with no luck. The transition point is the stamped y section and the interference there causes the lower gains.

Hi GS,
Thanks for the info. In discussions with others on this point the predictions were exactly what you are reporting. The thoughts were that the "Y" transition would do as you suggest. I must repeat myself, what a system. All who hear it, love it. I can't tell you how many people look under the car to confirm the fact that it has no muffler. -Very happy camper.

[Mallard]

Jack B - Those are HPTuners screen shots.

[achieftain]

Could it be at all possible for an engine to produce a larger hp gain in the middle of the range than it does at its redline? For example, could any (not just catback) one or combination of mods result in a 20 hp gain vs stock at 4000-5000 rpm yet dwindle to 6+ at 7000? Sure, Data can be interpreted in many ways. Which would YOU advertise if given a choice? It is not all about max power but about drivable power and what you can feel and see in real world driving. For example I could outfit an engine with nitrous and not hit the button until 5750 rpm. If I show comparable dyno sheets that end at 3000 they will be identical.

A stupid question, then. Why does the management software map the torque exactly the same regardless of gear? If it does as shown by teh graphs why even care what gear it is in? I have a gut feeling that the management of the engine at 1-2 shift as opposed to 3-4 shift at same rpms should be different.

[mystein]

Originally Posted by RPIpower I just got off the phone with Richard at Magnaflow. He put me on hold and spoke to their engineering department and they told him its more of a 22hp gain. Guys, really, I am not here to argue. We sell Magnaflow products and I just want to make sure OUR customers are not informed or given false hopes. I've been dynoing cars for 9 years now (on both dynojet and not dyno dynamics) and I ask the same thing to the customers each time. "How much power are you expecting?" Its sad because they were always told one thing when making a purchase for mods then are dissappointed when they dont see what they expected. The key to our success is being honest with our customers. Now you guys were just told 30hp, and Rich just checked with Engineering and they told me 22hp. LOL, which is it? First 6, then 30, now 22? Anyone with a Magnaflow exhaust can come dyno. I have atleast 5 redline base runs for you to compare them to. Those are strong words John. If anything your information is misleading and pulled right out of the riceboy archives. We've been selling Magnaflow/Carsound products for almost 9 years now so there is no reason for us to mislead our customers. How many of you have ever tuned a car in your life? Typically exhaust or muffler shops are just that...muffler/exhaust shops. They dont tune cars nor do they build them. The Skys have torque management and limits. See below: The pcm needs to be tuned or else the gains will be compromised. Here is another screen shot: You guys are taking it personally and you shouldnt. The attacks on me only show that some people might feel threatened by me. Either that or they dont want facts given out.

I think it is you who is being misleading...

The 30+ hp gain was NOT at Peak...it was merely somewhere in the power range and this is a standard method of advertising be it for exhaust systems, computer tuners, or CAI kits. This is backed up by the link that was provided by someone in this thread.

The 22 hp gain is at PEAK and from my recollection is about the same gain the Magnaflow Catback was advertised to provide from the beginning of its availability. This is also backed up by the same link provided in this thread.

...Advertising DOES depend on individuals being able to sort out some of the information provided. Manufacturers don't have the time to lead each and every horse to water.

So...when you feel the need to reference hp gains; how about including the information necessary for everyone to make the correlations here? That meaning; include the fact that the 30+ hp gain was not a PEAK gain but rather a gain noted somewhere in the power range. Include the fact that the 22 hp gain was at PEAK.


Without this information; others trying to make an informed decision can be lead astray by YOUR misleading statements.

And NO...I don't feel threatened by you nor do I think anyone else on this forum does either. I just happen to be of the opinion that you are not including the overall big picture when you put forth your statements. The part of the information that you had left out in this instance was very important to people being able to understand why the numbers you gave ARE different.

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by AlanBDahl Just installed a Magnaflow on my GXP today and my butt dyno says that there is a real improvement, especially at mid-range. Is it 25hp? Hard to say, at the top end it doesn't feel like that much but there definitely is more power. The biggest difference is at part-throttle where the boost builds quite a bit quicker. We'll see what it does at the autox this weekend but so far I'm pretty happy.

You'll like it. It makes short shifting more viable. You will actually be able to hear the exhaust! BTW, at my last event a fellow A/S driver was working the course where I was smacking the rev limiter. He said he could FEEL IT as I went by!!!

[snaponbob]

If the MF cat back "only" produces 6 horsepower ------------------

I WANT ANOTHER 6 HORSEPOWER MOD!!!!!!!

Six horsepower couldn't possibly "feel" like what my "butt dyno" tells me. WITH the MF 3" cat back traction is a problem with the stock tires at 2500 rpm in first gear, but with the stock exhaust it isn't. I know that the biggest horsepower and torque gains are further up the rev range, but the mid range gains are truly impressive (torque management or not).

I am smart enough to know that I am NOT smart enough, but I have built up a few engines in the past and know what more power feels like. And this feels like a hell of a lot more than 6 ANYTHINGS!!!

[RPIpower]

You guys crack me up. Its a pointless argument as you guys will believe what you want to believe. I said it many times before, if you guys get 30hp peak or even 250whp, your dyno session will be free. When you scan the redline or gxp, your torque management tables will show up. You just have no control over them. They use the same basic parameters on the 2.4L which kills your gains from any significant mods. There is no misleading in information as I just gave my honest opinion from dynoing hundreds of cars with similar mods over the last 9 years. I was told 6whp FOR the 2.0 turbo on the first conversation I had with Magnaflow. I was then told 30hp, then 22hp, then, "we cant guarantee gains as each car is different."

Did any of you miss the point that we ARE Magnaflow dealers? Making crap up doesnt benefit us. We are just trying to let our customers know so they dont go around saying, "I got 30hp from the exhaust, 20hp from the CAI and 15hp from my larger TB so I'm over 300hp." The information is misleading. You CANT simply say that adding larger pipes and decreasing back pressure will give you power. It just doesnt work that way, ok? This is a technical discussion but you guys are taking it all personally or as an attack from me.

[LatinVenom]

I was the first member here to call upon the Magnaflow numbers as been misleading and even posted what should be the actual numbers. I posted 267 to 272 BHP which translates into what RPI is saying and showing. Those numbers are 6 - 8 WHP period that is it, until the GXP can be tune.
I caught a bit flak from the members and have actually stayed away from all these discussions until now.
Whitout the ECM tune, the output of this engine will not exceed the internal parameters.
Last post on the subject.

[RPIpower]

Originally Posted by LatinVenom I was the first member here to call upon the Magnaflow numbers as been misleading and even posted what should be the actual numbers. I posted 267 to 272 BHP which translates into what RPI is saying and showing. Those numbers are 6 - 8 WHP period that is it, until the GXP can be tune. I caught a bit flak from the members and have actually stayed away from all these discussions until now. Whitout the ECM tune, the output of this engine will not exceed the internal parameters. Last post on the subject.

THANK YOU, as you seem to be one of the ONLY people actually have your car dynoed...yourself and not just given what was fed to them or by using the "butt dyno." I've tested TONS of exhaust systems for companies since many of them do not have their own dynos. Because of business and non-disclosure agreements, I have not called them out by name. I simply take our name off the dyno charts because I dont want to have anything to do with their claims. NOW, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING MAGNAFLOW DOES THIS. We can all agree that the Magnaflow exhaust will not hurt performance. Thanks for posting your experience venom.

[perris]

Originally Posted by RPIpower THANK YOU, as you seem to be one of the ONLY people actually have your car dynoed...yourself and not just given what was fed to them or by using the "butt dyno." I've tested TONS of exhaust systems for companies since many of them do not have their own dynos. Because of business and non-disclosure agreements, I have not called them out by name. I simply take our name off the dyno charts because I dont want to have anything to do with their claims. NOW, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING MAGNAFLOW DOES THIS. We can all agree that the Magnaflow exhaust will not hurt performance. Thanks for posting your experience venom.

pretty simple guys, butt dyno means nothing and dyno dyno means nothing

time logs...that's all that matters

stock does a lttle over 5 second 0-60's

when someone cracks 5 seconds that's when we'll know it does somehing

[mystein]

Originally Posted by RPIpower THANK YOU, as you seem to be one of the ONLY people actually have your car dynoed...yourself and not just given what was fed to them or by using the "butt dyno." I've tested TONS of exhaust systems for companies since many of them do not have their own dynos. Because of business and non-disclosure agreements, I have not called them out by name. I simply take our name off the dyno charts because I dont want to have anything to do with their claims. NOW, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING MAGNAFLOW DOES THIS. We can all agree that the Magnaflow exhaust will not hurt performance. Thanks for posting your experience venom.

Since you've tested "TONS" of exhaust systems for companies you'd probably say B.S. that my '03 Cobra went from 382 peak rwhp completely stock (as delivered from SVT) @ 1500 miles to 415 peak rwhp @ 2000 miles with only the addition of a Magnaflow Catback and a UPR CAI Kit. 33 rwhp and the temperature on the day of the modded test was higher with higher humidity to boot.

I'll gladly perform the same little comparison with my GXP. I need to get the car to MC Racing in KC for the baseline (with K&N drop-in) and then after I get the Magnaflow on I'll return to MC Racing and have a re-dyno (with atmospheric conditions as close as possible). I have a gut feeling that I'll be seeing quite a bit more than 6 peak rwhp difference between those runs. I'll even make sure that several hundred miles of "learning" miles are acrued on my GXP "after" addition of the Magnaflow Catback to rule-out the possibility of the computer not having had enough time to make its "supposed" adjustments.

The baseline won't happen next weekend but it will probably happen the following one (June 23rd). Then it'll be a bit for me to get rest of my $$$'s together so I can add the Magnaflow exhaust but I'll try to have the re-dyno completed by the middle of July. That's the best I can do but seeing that no-one else has taken the time to make proper comparisons that's all I can do.

This way it's same car...same dyno...same dyno operator...as close to same conditions as I can make it (right down to tire pressure and fuel-type and weight of car).