People have discussed some theories @ SF and most likely a cause seems to be a bad batch of seals on the vendor supplied diff (Getrag). Probably the kind of thing that can't be found until after car has run for a while (takes a while for contamination to wear away the seal). Hopefully GM beat them up about the subject
From what I seen on the seal we replaced, I agree, seal contamination is probably the actual cause of the leak. I looked at it (the seal) under a magnifyer, and erosion of the outer surface is obvious. The carrier itself showed no sign of being a cause of this problem, in that the yoke, and housing are perfectly machined.
From what I seen on the seal we replaced, I agree, seal contamination is probably the actual cause of the leak. I looked at it (the seal) under a magnifyer, and erosion of the outer surface is obvious. The carrier itself showed no sign of being a cause of this problem, in that the yoke, and housing are perfectly machined.
windface,
Please let me direct you to this thread about the Carrier Whine and my particular question.
__________________ Nov 1 06, 11000+ mls, Carrier Unit Replaced due to constant Leak and Whine
June 15 06, 6000+ mls, Leak Is BACK, Overfilled?
Feb 06, 2000+ mls, Leaking Diff. "Carrier Cover Gasket"
Wife got 10/27/05
Car Del. 10/25/05
Invoice and VIN# 10/7/05
Built as of 9/24/05
GM Picked Up 8/9/05
Up To #2 On Dealers List From #3
First 4 Month Allo.
Deep, 2 Tone, Pol. Whls, all but XM & On Star
Ordered Wife's Car Sat after Apprentice
Bonzo, I may need you to update me a bit (spending too much time on Miata.net) anyway, I had thought the whine resulted from losing the gear oil via a leak, but there's another issue/reason? Let me know, and I'll look into it for you.
Bonzo, I may need you to update me a bit (spending too much time on Miata.net) anyway, I had thought the whine resulted from losing the gear oil via a leak, but there's another issue/reason? Let me know, and I'll look into it for you.
windface,
It appears many people are experiencing a "whine" noise that appears to be fixed after getting the entire carrier unit replaced. The whine takes place during crusing (commonly in 3rd gear, but others have in more gears) at a constant speed with not much throttle pressure at a low RPM. The whine goes away during acceleration, coasting, and braking. During crusing, the whine is constant and never goes away. Here's how i described it on the other thread:
Quote:
The sound I am talking about sounds like.... well, it's kind of hard to describe. You ever heard a Ferrari going down the road? The sound of it's engine and gears etc is much higher pitched than most cars. Now take that idea and imagine a "transmissiony" gear sound, kind of high pitched. It doesn't scream at you, but it's more like a high pitched rumble. It sounds like its right between and behind the seats, like being in a mid-engine Ferrari. The sound comes when cruising at a constant speed at lower RPM, not accelerating and not coasting. When crusing the sound is totally constant, not sudden or quick then gone. But the moment you accelerate or coast, it goes away. The moment you start crusing again, it comes back.
I am in the process of typing up an e-mail version for the Dealer in case it becomes necessary. Below are excerpts I have taken from other people's posts (now called "person" instead of screen names for my dealer). From their posts it appears it is definitely the carrier.
Quote:
Here are 3 posts from folks that seem fairly conclusive.
Person #1
Here's a direct quote from the Dealer Maintenance job ticket.
5230 CARRIER WHINING F2143 TEST DROVE VEHICLE AND HEARD WHINE NOISE. PUT CHASSIS EARS AND TEST DROVE AGAIN AND HEARD MOST OF THE NOISE FROM THE PINION AREA OF REAR DIFFERENTIAL....CALLED TAC AND TALKED TO BARRY AND HE SAID TO REPLACE THE CARRIER AND NOT TAKE APART THE OLD DIFF...REPLACED CARRIER AND TEST DROVE VEHICLE AGAIN AND DID NOT HEAR WHINE ANYMORE...WORKING AS DESIGNED AT THIS TIME...
The whine is definitely gone. And all the way home in rush hour traffic I did not hear the clunk at all.
Person #2
Depending on the pitch adjustment of the ring gear it will either whine under load or no load. If it is adjusted correctly it will not whine under either.
Person #3
I had the whine as I posted earlier. Mine got worse so dealer replaced the carrier part# 15825073. I have over 1000 miles on the new one. The whine is gone and shifting is smoother. The difference is incredible. If I had the infamous clunk it's gone too. I think it is an issue that needs to be addressed. Supposedly, all GM changed on the new one was the mounting or a new bracket but if you have the whine get the carrier replaced. You won't believe the difference in the way it drives sounds and feels.
Anything you could offer as to advise on what to do would be appreciated.
Thanks ---- Bonzo
__________________ Nov 1 06, 11000+ mls, Carrier Unit Replaced due to constant Leak and Whine
June 15 06, 6000+ mls, Leak Is BACK, Overfilled?
Feb 06, 2000+ mls, Leaking Diff. "Carrier Cover Gasket"
Wife got 10/27/05
Car Del. 10/25/05
Invoice and VIN# 10/7/05
Built as of 9/24/05
GM Picked Up 8/9/05
Up To #2 On Dealers List From #3
First 4 Month Allo.
Deep, 2 Tone, Pol. Whls, all but XM & On Star
Ordered Wife's Car Sat after Apprentice
Thanks Bonzo, I'll see what I can find out. It does sounds like it is related to the alignment (pitch) of the carrier gears, in that it is gone with gear loading. Incidentely, the new carrier front mount was redesigned to make the carrier "more compatable with different car lines". This is the somewhat vague info. I found out about that. Anyway, I'll check this "whine" out on SI, and get back with you.
I had the diff replaced with the 158... part number, I'm "person number 1" above, and after a few hundred miles, I've noticed the whine is back a little, but only at about 30 miles an hour, in 3rd or 4th. No sign of it at highway speeds, where it was really bad before.
My clunk is coming back somewhat too, but nowhere near as bad as it was.
So while things are dramatically improved, they are not completely fixed. I just hope they don't continue to get worse.
Bonzo, I checked SI, and nothing came up specific to the Solstice. If this noise occurs after some miles, unfortunately even with carrier replacement, it may return. I see post #46 has reported on this. Hmmmm, the "clunk", and now this. Well I have an opinion, and that is this carrier is probably just a bad application for the Solstice, plain and simple. Tolerances are probably just too wide, and the associated noise is a problem in a small two seater. Mind you, I don't think it is a defective unit, just not the best one for this car. I almost hate to say this, because I don't want to be interpreted as saying that Mazda does things better... I'm not meaning this at all. It's just that by comparison in regard to this issue, the carrier Mazda uses is almost motorcycle sized, it looks like you could virtually put it "inside" of the Solstice's unit. That carrier is no doub't "model specific" to that car, and probably has everything to do with the quiet driveline.
Bonzo, I checked SI, and nothing came up specific to the Solstice. If this noise occurs after some miles, unfortunately even with carrier replacement, it may return. I see post #46 has reported on this. Hmmmm, the "clunk", and now this. Well I have an opinion, and that is this carrier is probably just a bad application for the Solstice, plain and simple. Tolerances are probably just too wide, and the associated noise is a problem in a small two seater. Mind you, I don't think it is a defective unit, just not the best one for this car. I almost hate to say this, because I don't want to be interpreted as saying that Mazda does things better... I'm not meaning this at all. It's just that by comparison in regard to this issue, the carrier Mazda uses is almost motorcycle sized, it looks like you could virtually put it "inside" of the Solstice's unit. That carrier is no doub't "model specific" to that car, and probably has everything to do with the quiet driveline.
Thanks windface for checking. Ya know, I had similar thoughts running through my head. We've got leaks, clunks and whines all coming from the same part of the car. There is obviously something wrong somewhere and GM knows it, they just can't determine what it is. It might be the use on this car in particular, or it might be the carrier itself. We know Caddy's had the same leak issue. I wonder if they have had either of the other two. Since this all seems to be a little on the hush hush unless you're on a forum or in contact with an honest knowledgible dealer, maybe Caddy's have had all these issues but it's never been made totally public? Maybe we'll find out some day and maybe we won't.
So I guess we just keep driving until the thing falls off or grinds itself up eh?
__________________ Nov 1 06, 11000+ mls, Carrier Unit Replaced due to constant Leak and Whine
June 15 06, 6000+ mls, Leak Is BACK, Overfilled?
Feb 06, 2000+ mls, Leaking Diff. "Carrier Cover Gasket"
Wife got 10/27/05
Car Del. 10/25/05
Invoice and VIN# 10/7/05
Built as of 9/24/05
GM Picked Up 8/9/05
Up To #2 On Dealers List From #3
First 4 Month Allo.
Deep, 2 Tone, Pol. Whls, all but XM & On Star
Ordered Wife's Car Sat after Apprentice
Had my car in for first oil change at 3K miles. Said that I saw some fluid around the diff housing. They checked and gave me the same overfill vent story. Car went in for 6K service and they show me under the car and the diff housing is covered in oil. Called the service department and made an appointment, dropping the car off tomorrow. We will see what happens.
Wish me luck. I think I might print all the pages of posts on this subject and take them with me as backup.
Your welcome Bonzo. Well shoot, I wished I had more solid answers, than opinions, but the car is just too darn new to have service dept. history. If any new info. comes up either from GM, or actual field repairs, I'll get it on the forum pronto .
Cadillac definately has the clunk issue. There's an aftermarket carrier brace available that supposedly fixes it, it's been posted here before. Speculation is that the brace would transfer the whine noise even louder though.
Cadillac definately has the clunk issue. There's an aftermarket carrier brace available that supposedly fixes it, it's been posted here before. Speculation is that the brace would transfer the whine noise even louder though.
So the Caddy has had both the leak (per the GM bulletin) and the clunk (per the aftermarket brace). That leaves only the whine.
Everyone,
I don't know about all you folks, but this is starting to sound more and more like a poorly engineered driveline/carrier assembly (not a poorly put together one). Sounds to me like this could be a forever on going issue, and GM picked the wrong "from the parts bin" carrier for this car.
One thing is for sure, I personally do not trust GM 100% to make it right, and that's a bummer. I mean, when does an issue become a real issue? Only when 5000 cars have the same problem? I have been cool about this, but it's starting to become a real annoyance.
__________________ Nov 1 06, 11000+ mls, Carrier Unit Replaced due to constant Leak and Whine
June 15 06, 6000+ mls, Leak Is BACK, Overfilled?
Feb 06, 2000+ mls, Leaking Diff. "Carrier Cover Gasket"
Wife got 10/27/05
Car Del. 10/25/05
Invoice and VIN# 10/7/05
Built as of 9/24/05
GM Picked Up 8/9/05
Up To #2 On Dealers List From #3
First 4 Month Allo.
Deep, 2 Tone, Pol. Whls, all but XM & On Star
Ordered Wife's Car Sat after Apprentice
It is getting confusing with so many things (clunk, leak and whine) on single part. I agree Bonzo, sounds like a parts bin issue and not assembly.
I made a joke to smartin the other day about being away from the Forum for a few weeks, and having to check back in to make sure we didn't have any new leaks or anything was falling off. Whoops! Shouldn't have opened my big mouth! I mean what's next, systematic clutch failure? Is the engine going to fall out? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
.
One thing is for sure, I personally do not trust GM 100% to make it right, and that's a bummer. I mean, when does an issue become a real issue? Only when 5000 cars have the same problem? I have been cool about this, but it's starting to become a real annoyance.