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catastrophic timing chain issue/safeguard suggestion

26K views 26 replies 13 participants last post by  Yogi 
#1 · (Edited)
serious timing chain issue/safeguard suggestion

Well this is really bad news, I was getting timing chain codes, except for a hard start the engine was running fine.

I thought I would try the tensioner before I did the entire chain, when I opened her up, man what a surprise.

There is a metal guard on the top of the timing chain, for some unknown reason this broke in two, one piece snapped off, the engine pulverized it, it entered the engine, scored lifters, smashed timing chain guides and who knows what else underneath, like possibly the crank.

I have 85,000 relatively mild miles, the only thing out of the ordinary, I am a salesperson and starts are 30 times more then normal

My mechanic has no idea what caused this guide to fail, he thinks a failing tensioner might drain when the engine is stopped, and maybe the timing chain jumps around on start striking the guide.

don't know

anyway, when up in mileage, and you have occasion to get under the valve cover, do look to see if this guide has strike marks, if so, might as well replace that metal guide.

This is bad guys, I am not messing with bandaids, rebuilding doesn't make sense as a new engine is about the same price

I hope this is a unicorn, if not, I sure hope I can prevent this from happening to others
 
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#3 ·
I do have an image, but I have an issue with boards that insist on using third party's to host their images, it's the main eason this board is so slow, if you want to pm your email address I'll send it to you

alternatively, load the image I post from this url, and look dead center on top of the timing chain, between the two gears, you'll see, only because you are looking, a guard of some sort just above the timing chain;

http://cliff.hostkansas.com/images/2010/ecotec_063.jpg
 
#4 · (Edited)
update.

My mechanic, doing research, is also beginning to believe it has to do with the guides over all, they are metal with a plastic coating, that coating wears out and groves, the belt then flaps around a bit, he also said it looks like gm recognizes the problem and the new timing chain guidess have a tougher plastic

In other words, the guides must wear out, and that will probably cause a failure way ahead of predicted schedule

The problem here is replacing the guides wind up being the same man hours as doing the entire chain,(10) so if you are going to prophetically replace the guides you are in for hours of labor and might as well do the chain.

first time I am not thrilled with the design, this is avoidable, the chain relies on the guides too much for them to have a wear related component, and that component almost impossible to service
 
#5 ·
Most OHV vehicles use a plastic or plastic-coated timing chain tensioner, with some lasting longer than others. At my former work we had Ford 'Exploders' that were used by news photographers 24/7. We used to joke around that over the life of the vehicle in our ownership, the engine blocks never cooled down. At around 300K the plastic chain tensioners used to wear to the point the chain would start slapping the cover. We would decommission the vehicle at that point. From what I understand, keeping up on scheduled oil changes with synthetic oil of the correct viscosity is most important for engines that use that type of timing chain tensioner.
 
#6 · (Edited)
my mechanic told me the same, and said it's largely the long timing chains that need guides, and it might be the guides not the tensioner that is the issue.

My oil changes were meticulous, and the oil changed was always clean still had plenty of life, oil change schedule was definately not the issue on my engine
 
#7 · (Edited)
I believe I have good news for everyone else, the people I ordered my new engine say they have never had to order replacement lnf, they don't seem to fail, he suspects this is a unique situation

On the other hand, gm has redesigned the timing chain tensioner, so maybe this was indeed caused by a failing tensioner in my car;

Description: PARTS UPDATE - TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER DESIGN CHANGE. *KB
NHTSA #10021074?

according to research on this notice, It seems the new tensioner is better fit and does not use an 0 ring, so I am thinking there is a chance my tensioner 0 ring failed

Let's hope I had a bad engine and the rest won't do this, however I recommend taking of the valve cover when you are over 0k and make sure your timing chain guides are in good repair, I don't know how much of a wear track is acceptable, but do look for those wear tracks
 
#8 · (Edited)
another update, it also seems some of these engines were installed with rollers that were not heat treated for the timing chain, so check to make sure these are on tact on your engine;


AIP3252

MODELS:
206-2007 CHEVROLET COBALT, COBALT SS
2006-2007 CHEVROLET HHR
2006-2007 CHEVROLET MALIBU
2007 PONTIAC G5
2006-2007 PONTIAC G6
2006 PONTIAC PURSUIT(CANADA ONLY)
2006-2007 PONTIAC SOLSTICE
2006-2007 SATURN ION REDLINE
2007 SATURN SKY

BUILT BETWEEN 4/1/06 - 11/1/06
WITH ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ENGINES
2.0 ENGINE (VIN P - RPO LSJ)
2.2 ENGINE (VIN D OR F - RPO L61)
2.4 ENGINE (VIN B OR P - RPO LE5)

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

CONDITION/CONCERN:

On rare occasions, a tick or rattle noise may be heard from behind the front cover of the engine and/or pieces of a timing chain roller may be found during an oil change. This may be the result of a timing chain concern.

Non-heat treated timing chain rollers were randomly installed in the assembly line hoppers. He advised that this happened sometime between 4/1/06 - 11/1/06 so it can randomly affect late 2006 - early 2007 models.

RECOMMENDATION/INSTRUCTIONS:

If this concern is experienced, inspect the timing chain for missing or damaged timing chain rollers. If a missing or damaged timing chain roller is found, replace the timing chain and gears using the part numbers currently listed in the parts catalog.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
 
#10 ·
another update, it also seems some of these engines were installed with rollers that were not heat treated for the timing chain, so check to make sure these are on tact on your engine;


AIP3252

MODELS:
206-2007 CHEVROLET COBALT, COBALT SS
2006-2007 CHEVROLET HHR
2006-2007 CHEVROLET MALIBU
2007 PONTIAC G5
2006-2007 PONTIAC G6
2006 PONTIAC PURSUIT(CANADA ONLY)
2006-2007 PONTIAC SOLSTICE
2006-2007 SATURN ION REDLINE
2007 SATURN SKY

BUILT BETWEEN 4/1/06 - 11/1/06
WITH ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ENGINES
2.0 ENGINE (VIN P - RPO LSJ)
2.2 ENGINE (VIN D OR F - RPO L61)
2.4 ENGINE (VIN B OR P - RPO LE5)
Note that none of those engines listed are the LNF.
 
#11 ·
Well it looks like after a dealer installed water pump on my 08 Solstice GXP I got the dreaded whine. They are going back in to replace the chain, tensioner and I think the guides.

Perris are you saying there was a part change or a NTSB bulletin? I have not been able to find anything. I'd like to ensure they don't put in outdated parts but maybe that was just for older models?
 
#13 ·
Pwerks makes a high performance timing chain tensioner

FYI
 
#14 ·
Well I think the warranty company is going to pay for it. They sent an adjuster yesterday. They will not allow anything but GM parts at the GM dealer. I just thought that perhaps Perris was saying they're was an updated GM part number.
 
#16 ·
Yeah exactly why I'm trying to find out if there was a design change or a NHTSB file. It's not about me getting mine paid for or whatever. These things seem to happen occasionally when the water pump is changed for obvious reasons, but that wasn't the reason the OP posted of course. Just trying to get the benefit of new info if there is some.
 
#17 ·
2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP

Well this is really bad news, I was getting timing chain codes, except for a hard start the engine was running fine.

I thought I would try the tensioner before I did the entire chain, when I opened her up, man what a surprise.

There is a metal guard on the top of the timing chain, for some unknown reason this broke in two, one piece snapped off, the engine pulverized it, it entered the engine, scored lifters, smashed timing chain guides and who knows what else underneath, like possibly the crank.

I have 85,000 relatively mild miles, the only thing out of the ordinary, I am a salesperson and starts are 30 times more then normal

My mechanic has no idea what caused this guide to fail, he thinks a failing tensioner might drain when the engine is stopped, and maybe the timing chain jumps around on start striking the guide.

don't know

anyway, when up in mileage, and you have occasion to get under the valve cover, do look to see if this guide has strike marks, if so, might as well replace that metal guide.

This is bad guys, I am not messing with bandaids, rebuilding doesn't make sense as a new engine is about the same price

I hope this is a unicorn, if not, I sure hope I can prevent this from happening to others
HI .. My name is Cindy and I live in So Cal. I have a 2008 Solstice GXP (manual transmission) and was just informed by my mechanic that I may have a water pump chain problem or motor chain problem. I want to keep the car.. It only has 89,000.00 and $4,k left to pay off. Can someone quote me what the job would be? I want to know what I'm in for before I go to the dealer and have it done. Please email: Cindy.Campbell@svclnk.com

Thank you for any help you can provide.
 
#20 ·
HI .. My name is Cindy and I live in So Cal. I have a 2008 Solstice GXP (manual transmission) and was just informed by my mechanic that I may have a water pump chain problem or motor chain problem. I want to keep the car.. It only has 89,000.00 and $4,k left to pay off. Can someone quote me what the job would be? I want to know what I'm in for before I go to the dealer and have it done. Please email: Cindy.Campbell@svclnk.com

Thank you for any help you can provide.
Hi Cindy,

I can tell you that it's about 7.2 hours to replace the timing chain. So if you take an average of $130/hr x 7.2 = $936 just for labor. This does not include parts. I don't know what parts need to be replaced or how much they are, but it'll be about $900 for labor!! And while they're at it Cindy, if you haven't had the waterpump replaced, have them do that! It'll save you a lot of $$$$ later.
 
#23 ·
A known issue on the 2.4 2009-2012 Equinox. So bad they stuck a 10 year/120k mile warranty on this, the balance shaft chain and Pistons/rings. Lots of video on YouTube about this.
 
#24 ·
#27 ·
I called my local Chevy dealer to see if there were any TSBs about the new tensioner for my 2009 Sky. He said "No."

Why do I NOT feel so reassured?

Yogi
 
#25 ·
You are correct^^^
 
#26 ·
Just wondering if Cindy ever found out what was wrong and what the cost is to repair it. I know I advocated an engine swap and said $3-3.5K but apparently most places will charge double that. If the repair is only $2k then it might be worth the repair given the attachment to the vehicle. However if the mechanic thinks it's a chain problem then I'm guessing it's making sort of audible noise and those can be tricky to diagnose. I'd still advocate selling the car and cutting loses.
 
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