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Old 01-02-2013, 06:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Intake sludge

I recently had the intake off of my GXP, the sludge in there was sickening. I run good gas and use Seafoam regularly. Car runs fine but it was a mess, not sure if thjis is because of the Direct Injection or what. I followed the LNF Seafoam directions on Youtube and a ton of crap came out of the car, clouds of smoke, did it 4 times and will most likely do it again. This is not simply dumping Seafoam in the tank, you slowly suck it in to the intake from a vacuum line, it's very easy to do and the car does seem to run smoother.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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When you said you "use Seafoam regularly", did you just add it to the tank before, then?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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That 'sludge' is the result of a malfunctioning PCV system dumping oil into the intake system. Think about it........ what else goes through there? Filtered air, period. The fuel all goes directly into the cylinder. Clean up the mess and fix the PCV system and/or add a good catch can.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes I just put it in the gas before, PCV system is stock, not to say that it is working well. If this is happening on my stock setup I am sure it is happening on others as well, I was thinking that all that went in there was air, didn't think about the PCV. The Seafoam thing is actually pretty cool and fun, I put out a cloud that made my neighborhood disappear, I blew smoke for over a mile when I went for a drive. I will most likely do the Seafoam thing every weekend for a couple of weeks then once a month.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Addendum to my post- the other thing going into the intake is the seafoam (even sounds like sludge). You may be your own worst enemy.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Seafoam works quite well, all it really does is loosen carbon deposits on the intake and then makes the engine hot enough to burn it off other internals. Lots of info about it out there, it's not snake oil. I was told about it by my Harley mechanic, he tested it on a Harley then pulled the heads, he was pulling them anyway. Said it worked well.

Whether Seafoam works or not is not really my point, the fact that I would imagine most of our intakes are sludged up is. Clean them anyway you like. I see a catch can in my future.

Seafoam consists of:
Pale Oil 40-60%
Naphtha 20-25%
IPA 10-20%
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DDM Works PINK Breastplate, PRO Beam
HKS Coilovers
GXP Z0K rear sway bar with urethane bushings
Custom Jonymac glass wind screen, one of a kind.
Eclipse AVN726e; ZED Audio Leviathan, Image Dynamics tweeters, CTS door subs, active crossover tri-amped. Audio Control 6 channel 30 band parametric EQ.
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Last edited by lil goat; 01-02-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What was mileage? Also, is there a chemical difference between Seafoam and fuel injection cleaner?
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lil goat View Post
Whether Seafoam works or not is not really my point, the fact that I would imagine most of our intakes are sludged up is. Clean them anyway you like. I see a catch can in my future.
You'll probably find the one-way check valve, that attaches to the barb on your intake pipe, is gummed open. Take it off and blow/suck on it, If you can do both it's gummed... just flush it out with rubbing alcohol (90%) a few times and you should be able to clean it up and get it working again.

Why & where you should/shouldn't run an Oil Catch Can (OCC) on an LNF kappa
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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In my opinion, if you're gonna go through the trouble of intake cleaning, you might as well clean the throttle body/plate as well. Particularly if you have an LNF with a tune. So if I wanted to use Sea Foam, I'd use their Deep Creep variety that comes in an aerosol can. That way you can spray it into the intake just before the throttle body.

Furthermore, even if you went the route of using vacuum from the engine to pull the Sea Foam or similar product in, it's being drawn in as a liquid, as opposed to forced in under pressure with far better atomization. Think about it that way too.

BTW, GM makes something just for this called GM Cleenz. Or at least is used to be called that. I've been using GM Cleenz for intake tract cleaning for at least a decade now. About to run out of the stuff actually, and would buy again (have used Sea Foam before, it was very popular with the boosted Volvo crowd, but through that is how I found GM Cleenz, and I find it works better as an aerosol intake tract cleaner than Sea Foam. But SF is more versatile in that it can be added to the fuel tank for injector cleaning, but I use AMSOIL's Performance Improver fuel system cleaner for that, the only other similar cleaner I'd use other than SF, and AMSOIL's PI is Chevron's personally, but I bought the PI in a large amount and should last me a while).
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Seafoam has a video on how to use their aerosol version, it works better on a Vortec than the liquid. It is just such a pain to pull the intake hose off the throttle body, I used the liquid, it is actually vaporized as it is sucked in slowly, that's why you let it "sip" it in. I checked the throttle body while the intake was off it was very clean, the only crude of any kind was on the outside lip where the hose attaches, inside was spotless. I will look for GM cleenz if it still exists, might have gone the way of the Pontiac. I can say the Seafoam makes a lot of smoke, and the longer you let it sit after you apply it (immediately turn car off) the more smoke it seems to make, it supposedly soaks into the carbon. I mean a LOT of smoke came out and that was with 4 oz of Seafoam and a 15 minute wait.

GM Top end cleaner
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Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage tune
RMR Style Bar.
SSR Type C wheels, Nitto 555's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate, PRO Beam
HKS Coilovers
GXP Z0K rear sway bar with urethane bushings
Custom Jonymac glass wind screen, one of a kind.
Eclipse AVN726e; ZED Audio Leviathan, Image Dynamics tweeters, CTS door subs, active crossover tri-amped. Audio Control 6 channel 30 band parametric EQ.
JL Audio 10" sub

Last edited by lil goat; 01-02-2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Just like Deep Creep is basically the same stuff as Sea Foam is, just with some propellant in it, which is likely also a solvent itself, GM makes Cleens in aerosol and non-aerosol format. And apparently it's called Cleens in the Canadian market, and Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner in the US. And in aerosol form it is called Top Engine Cleaner.


It's not as hard as you make it out to be. See the orange arrow?


I loosen the ring clamp enough to get a red plastic aerosol "straw" into the intake, the tighten it down a little so the tip can't get sucked in, and there isn't too much of a vacuum leak.

The GM Cleens instructions are to spray it in before the throttle body and after the MAF sensor into a warm and running engine. Then while continually spraying, shut the engine down, and wait like 10 minutes or so. The start up, spray a little more down to wash out what's left, then change your oil.

The only caveat I will suggest is, make sure when you think you're done, you get the revs up a little with little to no load on the engine. This will help to clear out a lot of the cleaner that will still be in there. If not, you'll change your oil like you're supposed to, and the first few times you get hard on the throttle and intake stream velocities increase, you'll be pulling it through then, and slightly contaminating the oil, which you were trying to prevent in the first place.

And all that smoke you're getting out the tail pipe is not the deposits, if it were, your engine would be so caked up it wouldn't be able to run. That smoke is the burning of the solvents you're spraying/dripping into the intake. Not that this stuff doesn't REALLY clean out your intake, it's just that 99%~ of the smoke is from the solvent, not the deposits.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The amount of sludge in my intake was enough to make me wonder how the car ran, my throttle body doesn't need cleaning I just saw it. The sludge is a know issue, DDM found it long ago and created a Solstice catch can because of it. When you actually see how much crap is in the intake it will shock you, all cars get it ours is just worse than most, I suppose because of the DI.
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Solo Mach and No Cat custom A/R cone
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage tune
RMR Style Bar.
SSR Type C wheels, Nitto 555's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate, PRO Beam
HKS Coilovers
GXP Z0K rear sway bar with urethane bushings
Custom Jonymac glass wind screen, one of a kind.
Eclipse AVN726e; ZED Audio Leviathan, Image Dynamics tweeters, CTS door subs, active crossover tri-amped. Audio Control 6 channel 30 band parametric EQ.
JL Audio 10" sub
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil goat View Post
The amount of sludge in my intake was enough to make me wonder how the car ran, my throttle body doesn't need cleaning I just saw it. The sludge is a know issue, DDM found it long ago and created a Solstice catch can because of it. When you actually see how much crap is in the intake it will shock you, all cars get it ours is just worse than most, I suppose because of the DI.
It seems to me that with DI, one would be more prone to getting sludge deposits in the intake from the PCV system. Because since there are no fuel injectors in the manifold, then the only thing going through there is air and what oil deposits get through the PCV system. So no gas to clean the oil deposits off the walls of the manifold; hence more sludge build up.

But on the flip side: Less sludge is probably making it's way into the cylinders. And it also explains why the LNF can seem to still run pretty good with that much sludge in the intake, because it isn't really contaminating the fuel anyway. So until the sludge gets bad enough to allow chunks to blow into the cylinders and/or effect air velocities in the intake: One probably wouldn't ever really notice a performance difference.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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PCV Valve

There is a PCV valve built into the intake manifold between #2 and #3 intake runners on my 2.0 LNF.
You cannot see it unless you have removed the intake manifold. It is between the intake manifold and the head. It uses intake manifold vacumn to draw out crankcase fumes/vapors and sends the fumes/vapors through the intake manifold to the engine to be burned.
I think this is where the bulk if not all of the dirty intakes and sludge comes from.
Jerry
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The amount of sludge in my intake was enough to make me wonder how the car ran, my throttle body doesn't need cleaning I just saw it. The sludge is a know issue, DDM found it long ago and created a Solstice catch can because of it. When you actually see how much crap is in the intake it will shock you, all cars get it ours is just worse than most, I suppose because of the DI.
I got almost NOTHING until I upped the boost, now I get a few drops out the baffled venting from the heads to goes to the turbo. Most people can get away with out a breather tank or catch can until they get a tune.

If you think our cars are bad, you should see Audi and VWs. Now don't get me wrong, they've gotten better at it, but initially, they were NOTORIOUS for deposit build up on the intake valves.

I'm considering using an old wet nitrous setup and plumbing a small 50-75 shot just to have a little fun with an intake cleaning shot or two from time to time
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