LNF Mod Primer

[mkriebs]

Originally Posted by snaponbob Please specify what you mean "unreliable" in reference to wastegate line restrictors? Also, hopefully you are not including a downpipe as an aftermarket part that has little benefit, because it absolutely does have a significant positive effect as does a low restriction exhaust vs. stock.

The restrictors are unreliable in the fact that it just slows down the wastegate response. All it is is a welding tip with a .030 hole in the wastegate line. So, the car is going to try to combat this to open the wastegate. Some people are seeing good results (I hesitate to call them great), and some people have nearly blown the turbo off the car by spiking so high. Also, compressor surge is a biotch with the restrictor in.

And yes, a downpipe has little to no effect without a tune. Like I said, the only thing it will do is help the turbo spool (without a tune), you will not pick up any power until you tune it. Perks of the learn down feature.

[wspohn]

To a man 1000 years ago, a flashlight or a cigarette lighter would be black magic (and would probbaly have got you stoned or burned at the stake).

But really, what Trifecta does is exactly the same as everyone else does, but the WAY he does it is novel. He apparently programs things in a way that no one else can at this point, and has two very nice features - stealth and switching it on and off.

Tuners all do two things - they wrest the controls away from the stock programming by various subterfuges and techniques and then they are at the same starting point as any engine tuner is, with a list of parameters they can play with to enhance power output, flexibility, mileage...

So you take the list and you vary timing, mixture, wastegate and a bunch of others and you come up with answers different from the factory, who had to be concerned with other priorities than tuners do, and you end up with maybe lower mileage but better torque and power, and hopefully you do it without being too adventurous and blowing up customers' engines.

That's where the REAL tuning starts - where you begin changing hardware once you have got as much as you can out of the stock equipment. Bigger blowers go on, perhaps if it isn't too challenging, new cam timing may eventually be developed - and we start reaching the limits of some of the stock equipment.

For instance, it still amazes me that the LNF produces the sort of power it does with the boost pressures it uses, with only cast pistons. Very strong cast pistons I'm sure, but there is a limit and that might be one of the areas to look at strengthening if anyone heads for 500 BHP+. Rods, crank, the list gets longer the higher the aspirations....

[mean08solstice]

First of all, thanks for the layman's terms on this issue, really helps to clear up the mud.

Second, basically to keep 100% factory warranty, as well as gain HP, it to install the 19212670 GM accessory with upgraded tuning, correct?

[mkriebs]

Yeah, the GM stage kit will do wonders. And when your warranty runs out... it makes the platform even better to build on if you choose to.

[kennysabarese]

Originally Posted by DEJON-Dave Trifecta's tune which I can sell for Sol & Sky but not for Cobalt SS because he has an exclusive agreement with another vendor. I run the Cruise switched version on my car with the 16g kit and switch between 20psi (stock Mode) and 25psi (Power Mode). I can run higher, but am satisfied with 25psi. I can also increase it myself with HP Tuners if I want.

Dave,

So if you are getting 20psi in "stock mode" is that GMPP sensors and tune?

[snaponbob]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Yeah, the GM stage kit will do wonders. And when your warranty runs out... it makes the platform even better to build on if you choose to.

It does? Not trying be rude, but so far nobody has conclusively shown any meaningful increases with the 3 bar sensors. What am I missing?

[wspohn]

Originally Posted by snaponbob It does? Not trying be rude, but so far nobody has conclusively shown any meaningful increases with the 3 bar sensors. What am I missing?

That's not rude, that's being inquisitive, which is why I started this thread.

And it is a fair question, as the new sensors are apparently installed just so GM could retain a certain 'headroom' that really isn't necessary for anything they were doing with that tune.

The only people I recall that seem to say they can get some benefit from using these sensors are Werks and DDM with their larger capacity turbo units. Maybe one of their representatives can find out and post whether they feel that these sensors offer any advantage to tuning on the more radical end of things.

[kennysabarese]

Sky888 has a bigger turbo and is making 400whp with the 2.7 sensors.

[kennysabarese]

I think by wonders he's just saying it's a great upgrade for a stock car until someone is ready to go aftermarket.

[mkriebs]

As in 'wonders', I was saying it is a great upgrade to keep the warranty. BUT, the real wonders start when you modify it. The normal sensors let the car boost to 22.48 psi. Pretty good for a stock turbo. But, if you put a big turbo on, you can overboost momentarily, then the ECU gets cranky, and starts closing the throttle plate to reduce boost to get it into a range that it can read through the 22 psi sensors.

The stage kit however, will allow up to 27psi of boost, before it starts closing the throttle plate and shutting down. Now, if you are looking for results, Dave (from werks) made a promise in another thread... if you have a stage 2, manual trans Sol or Sky, he guarantees he can hit 450 hp, or the kit is free. He really wants someone to step up so we can hit hat mark. So, the potential is there, but the results are not because no one will step up and let us do it.

[Northstar24]

Originally Posted by mkriebs As in 'wonders', I was saying it is a great upgrade to keep the warranty. BUT, the real wonders start when you modify it. The normal sensors let the car boost to 22.48 psi. Pretty good for a stock turbo. But, if you put a big turbo on, you can overboost momentarily, then the ECU gets cranky, and starts closing the throttle plate to reduce boost to get it into a range that it can read through the 22 psi sensors. The stage kit however, will allow up to 27psi of boost, before it starts closing the throttle plate and shutting down. Now, if you are looking for results, Dave (from werks) made a promise in another thread... if you have a stage 2, manual trans Sol or Sky, he guarantees he can hit 450 hp, or the kit is free. He really wants someone to step up so we can hit hat mark. So, the potential is there, but the results are not because no one will step up and let us do it.

Are you talking about the 50 trim kit that you offer? That was on my list for the SRT before I decided to sell it for the Solstice....

[mkriebs]

Originally Posted by Northstar24 Are you talking about the 50 trim kit that you offer? That was on my list for the SRT before I decided to sell it for the Solstice....

Thats the one! It uses a PTE 5457 turbo, one of the best on the market. If you are stage 2 and manual, lets do it! I can talk to Dave and make sure the offer still stands (I'm sure it does though... he seemed very confident).

[mean08solstice]

Originally Posted by mkriebs Yeah, the GM stage kit will do wonders. And when your warranty runs out... it makes the platform even better to build on if you choose to.

Thanks for the info. Looks like I have my answer as to how to spend the Christmas bonus....