It has been stated that one of the ways the BSR tune works is by adjusting the boost solenoid settings in the ECM. They achieve levels of 23 lbs boost or more, the are adjusting the ECM parameters that control the same systems with no ill effects. This mod will not get that much boost and does not disable the ECM's ability to control the wastegate. Manual boost controllers and other mods address the same systems. I think the info Dave supplied is great, it just helps me understand more of what is happening and why the mod works so well.
__________________ Red Bull Drift Team 2008
Solo Mach and High Flow Cat
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage RACE tune II
JPM custom shifter.
Barney Juice with Militec-1
GM Auto-dimming mirror with OnStar and maplights
Rhys Millen Racing, RMR Style Bar. Peak RWHP 286.3, Peak Torque 313 ft/lbs.
SSR Type C wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate
I finally just adjusted it all the way out. It hadn't developed any check engine light so far. And on the boost solenoid. What if you already bypassed it? Eitherway, I have notice an extreme difference in acceleration. It help doing this mod when I installed the Dejon CAI. Cause I have no idea why I lost acceleration, but this mod allowed to make up the difference. I plan to get an ecu reflash or update. Just trying to find the best one for my setup. I probably should wait till I replace the IC pipes and the exhaust. Then do the ECU update. But yeah I am happy so far. I peak out now at 19 and consistently stay around 17 or 18 in 4th and 5th. I am also needing to order the update to my actron. Which adds another board to the unit and a reflash, so I will be able to use it on my car.
I think the question should be.
What are the consequences by not meeting Borg-Warner factory specs?.
Can someone find what the factory specs are or what does it specify.
__________________ Aggressive GXP at $25,995.00 shipping of $600, Manual Transmission.
Options:
Air, $960; Chrome Wheels, $545; PCQ, Premium Package (Leather), $525; Radio, 6-Disc with MP3, $495; Monsoon, $395; Premium Acoustic Headliner, $150; and Sport Metallic Pedals, $115; all totals $29,180.00. No XM/OnStar and NO Spoiler. MODS (RKSport/Magnaflow dual exit exhaust system, K&N filter, Ventureshield.
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~~~~~~~ NASSOA
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~~~~~~~
The mod will allow the manifold pressure to reach 240kpa sooner, if the pressure exceeds 240kpa the ECM will close the wastegate to reduce boost, the safeguards in the ECM are still in place. I bellieve LV is correct we need more info. We need to remember that GM's goal is smooth power, not max power. They did not set the car up for power junkies like those reading this thread.
__________________ Red Bull Drift Team 2008
Solo Mach and High Flow Cat
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage RACE tune II
JPM custom shifter.
Barney Juice with Militec-1
GM Auto-dimming mirror with OnStar and maplights
Rhys Millen Racing, RMR Style Bar. Peak RWHP 286.3, Peak Torque 313 ft/lbs.
SSR Type C wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate
Another question. How does the BSR tune effect this mod? Are they compatable?
Joe
__________________
'07 Mean GXP. Cloth seats, Headliner, MP3 Radio and Monsoon, Wet Okole Seat covers, Tonneau, Custom lighted Wind Restrictor, Tire Temp & Pressure Monitor. BSR Tune and Hahn IC, Build Date 03/07 Her name is "Summer"
Quid, Me Anxius?
Bill Hahn says NO, do not use this mod with the BSR tune and they are doing similar things, one through programming of the boost solenoid control, the other through a mechanical adjustment
__________________ Red Bull Drift Team 2008
Solo Mach and High Flow Cat
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage RACE tune II
JPM custom shifter.
Barney Juice with Militec-1
GM Auto-dimming mirror with OnStar and maplights
Rhys Millen Racing, RMR Style Bar. Peak RWHP 286.3, Peak Torque 313 ft/lbs.
SSR Type C wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate
I think the question should be.
What are the consequences by not meeting Borg-Warner factory specs?.
Can someone find what the factory specs are or what does it specify.
GM is telling their mechanics not to adjust the rod. It tells us that adjusting the rod will give us quicker and more boost because the ECM does not adjust boost based on feedback from the MAP sensor (it's open loop, not closed loop). The ECM doesn't control boost untill after initial spoolup which is why we get spikes of 21-23psi. But after spoolup it controls the boost solenoid based on an ECM table. The main concern we have is running too lean during this quick spoolup, hence the changes I posted to the power enrichment table. THE ECM still has "models" of airflow, MAP, barometric pressure, and perhaps other factors which it uses to set error codes, throttle closure and/or limp mode when one or more inputs goes outside the "model". This is why I think we will need to change these "models" along with boost control in order to get big hp.
__________________
Dave at www.DEJONPOWERHOUSE.com
Currently running 311 rear wheel hp with 16g kit at 25psi
Stocking Dealer for HP Tuners VCM Suites and Wester's tune ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NASSOA
Founding Member #6 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I sent the info to Lyndon Wester, he says pretty much the same as Dave. He just explains a few things sort of. Here is his comment.
"Limiting boost pressure is accomplished by the ECM controlling the
turbocharger wastegate solenoid and maintaining the duty cycle at 0 percent.
"
This would be the same as leaving the wastegate solenoid electrically
disconnected, so this statement is true.
"This means that the ECM will not actively close the wastegate during
greater engine loads."
True.
"The system at this point is limited to mechanical boost. Mechanical boost
means that the wastegate will move, but the amount of motion is limited by
mechanical properties of the return spring within the actuator, the
pneumatic properties of the actuator."
True.
"In this mode of operation the manifold pressure will attain a max pressure
of 140kPa."
In its' stock adjusted form--true.
"During normal operation, if a wide open throttle were to be requested at
lower engine speeds, the ECM will command the boost control solenoid with a
duty cycle of 100% to minimize any turbo lag."
Yes, more boost would be allowed. True.
"During engine loads in the middle and upper RPM ranges, the ECM will
command the boost control solenoid, with a duty cycle of 65-80%. Manifold
pressures for up to 240 kPa are possible."
Possible, yes...attainable for any length of time longer than 1-3 seconds,
not in the stock form. At this point, it doesn't matter what the wastegate
does, or what the solenoid does...the ECM commands the electronic throttle
closed.
"The turbocharger wastegate actuator assembly has a threaded rod and nut
that connects the diaphragm of the actuator to the wastegate. This rod is
adjusted to Borg-Warner factory specs and is not adjustable."
I think we all know the answer to this one.
Lyndon
__________________ Red Bull Drift Team 2008
Solo Mach and High Flow Cat
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage RACE tune II
JPM custom shifter.
Barney Juice with Militec-1
GM Auto-dimming mirror with OnStar and maplights
Rhys Millen Racing, RMR Style Bar. Peak RWHP 286.3, Peak Torque 313 ft/lbs.
SSR Type C wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate
Bill Hahn says NO, do not use this mod with the BSR tune and they are doing similar things, one through programming of the boost solenoid control, the other through a mechanical adjustment
Thanks, that's kinda what I figured
Joe
__________________
'07 Mean GXP. Cloth seats, Headliner, MP3 Radio and Monsoon, Wet Okole Seat covers, Tonneau, Custom lighted Wind Restrictor, Tire Temp & Pressure Monitor. BSR Tune and Hahn IC, Build Date 03/07 Her name is "Summer"
Quid, Me Anxius?
Does anyone have an opinion if one has done both Exhaust Depot's anti lag mod (bypass) and this mod (wastgate shortening)? Should only one or the other be done? I have done both and the boost shoots off like crazy. I like it, but concerned about potential damage? I zoom to 22 lbs and maintain 19 lbs now... Before this more recent wastegate mod I was only getting 15-16 lbs. I saw approx a 6 lb jump in boost pressure with this wastegate mod. Thanks.
Other mods include:
1. Dejon's IC
2. Exhaust depot's IC pipes
3. BOV (I have since disconnected, but pondering putting it back into service) any opinions on this? Has anyone seen a negative effect from the BOV?
4. Fugita intake
5. Magnaflow exhaust
Antonio has both mods, I tried the ED mod for a while and didn't like it. That mod is actually disabling a safety device, this mod is forcing the wastegate to stay open by increasing spring tension, the ECM can still control the wastegate and open it at any time if boost levels are to high. I believe the BSR tune is doing something very similar by controlling the boost solenoid.
If you read what Dave has posted and understand what a wastegate does, you can decide for your self if this is something you want to do. It can also been done in degrees, as many have done. Just tighten the thread a little, lots of options and it is very fairly priced.
__________________ Red Bull Drift Team 2008
Solo Mach and High Flow Cat
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage RACE tune II
JPM custom shifter.
Barney Juice with Militec-1
GM Auto-dimming mirror with OnStar and maplights
Rhys Millen Racing, RMR Style Bar. Peak RWHP 286.3, Peak Torque 313 ft/lbs.
SSR Type C wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate
I've been running this mod for about a month and haven't had any code issues and as long as I reset my ECU every week I get 21psi of boost regularly. This is a definately the best bang for the buck mod yet.
Dave
__________________
Future so bright I have to wear shades!!!
Mean GXP (VIN 117835 11/06 )
Name: Growler
Name: Growler (Vin #4878) Traded for Mean GXP 3/19/07
Mean, dark side, ebony leather w/red stiching, LSD, ABS, AC, Monsoon 6CD changer, mats , headliner, stability control, XM, power pkg., convenience pkg., chrome wheels, sport peddles, Fiam Air Horns, Magnaflow, De-badged, shortened waste gate rod mod.
Garage Mates: 2005 Yamaha FJR1300, 2003 Yukon w/K&N CAI, 2003 Honda CRV
Try letting your ECM learn for a while longer, the performance gets even better and the ECM can learn to compensate for the slight lean condition, takes about 1000 miles. Just an opinion but my car is faster now than when I first did the mod, even if boost levels are slightly lower. What is happening is boost levels are still just as high but they don't stay high as long so you don't see them, we saw this reading boost off the dyno instead of the DIC, we taped into the vacuum lines and used a manual gauge.
__________________ Red Bull Drift Team 2008
Solo Mach and High Flow Cat
Dejon Intercooler, Intake Elbow, BOV spring
Wester's Garage RACE tune II
JPM custom shifter.
Barney Juice with Militec-1
GM Auto-dimming mirror with OnStar and maplights
Rhys Millen Racing, RMR Style Bar. Peak RWHP 286.3, Peak Torque 313 ft/lbs.
SSR Type C wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE-01's
DDM Works PINK Breastplate
