odd ball question about air boxes na&turbo - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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odd ball question about air boxes na&turbo

I know the tops are different.are the boxes different? does the turbo box flow better?if so.. will the NA top fit the turbo box?if so who has a turbo box for cheep....Im not a fan of the CAI's. I just dont care for the looks of them...but I know they work,I know better boxes work. I di many expearaments 15 years ago with my 4 wheeler, the more you open up the box the faster it is the more jetting it needs ,even if the air box inlet is 4x bigger than the carb size, more is better. I may end up going CAI..a black one..hidden.. so..who has compared the gxp&na air boxes?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 07:03 PM
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They are completely different. The intake tube even comes out the opposite side(s).

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 07:19 PM
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The tops are different, the bottoms, I think, are the same. The air filters are the same. Gotta check some part numbers but I'll be back.

EDIT: The bottoms have different part numbers so probably are different.



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Last edited by DaveOC; 04-18-2019 at 07:37 PM.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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I know the tops are different,just wondered if the bottoms were interchangeable and if the gxp/turbo boxes breathe easyer. part numbers may be different and still interchangeable. I don't think a turbo box would need to "muffel" the pulsations that a NA box needs to do.thus they may breathe better.and may be interchangeable.it's worth a try any way if somebody have 1 of each they have taken off that they can compare.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 09:09 PM
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The turbo box muffles the turbo whine and the blow off. The cold air intakes do nothing for the boosted cars
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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so we need 2 boxes to compare.wish I still had a flow bench. a high flow top would be nice too. 12 hp on the camarow stuff with just a top change,possibly a top spacer/wedge plate would help. k&n claims 5.4 hp on their cai.witch is about half of 12....time for some 3 d printed wedge spacers!! or complete tops made for better flow!! and of coarse some work to the bottoms wouldn't hurt either. I need to get a old box to play with. among other things.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOC View Post
The tops are different, the bottoms, I think, are the same. The air filters are the same. Gotta check some part numbers but I'll be back.

EDIT: The bottoms have different part numbers so probably are different. .
I am curious about what is different, because the bottoms appear to be identical. Maybe the mounting, and possibly the inside of the resonator, but externally I can't tell them apart.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 04:19 PM
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I am curious about what is different, because the bottoms appear to be identical. Maybe the mounting, and possibly the inside of the resonator, but externally I can't tell them apart.
It would only make sense that they be identical, but then it IS GM we're dealing with. Since you have both an NA and a Redline, you are in an ideal situation to do some measuring and maybe crossfitting.



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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 04:47 PM
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It would only make sense that they be identical, but then it IS GM we're dealing with. Since you have both an NA and a Redline, you are in an ideal situation to do some measuring and maybe crossfitting..
I know that the tops and the airfilters interchange, because I am altering a turbo top to use with the NA bottom for my supercharger and I have had it on multiple times. Unfortunately I'm not excited enough about it to disassemble anything to see what might be different.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 07:44 PM
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Well if the bottoms are (or look) identical, and the filter is the same, then the OP's question has been answered. There is no reason to swap. Probably the outlet tube has the greatest effect, and you can't swap that!

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 09:02 AM
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One thing to remember about advertising claims - when a manufacturer boasts something like ('Get 200 more CFM than a stock intake!" it is enough to draw the naive and credulous into buying their item without thinking about the claim any further. They read the statement to mean 'You will get more power'

And that may or may not be the case. If the stock intake flows 400 cfm and the most a stock engine can suck is 300 cfm, then increasing the flow capability to 600 cfm is going to get you exactly zero additional power but it gets the manufacturer, who didn't (quite) lie to you, a bunch of undeserved cash.

Tests have shown that the stock air box flows more than a stock engine can use or needs. Will you eventually reach a point where that situation changes if you mod the engine and stick on larger and larger turbos? Quite possibly, but I don't recall seeing any hard data for that - if anyone has, speak up.

The other thing to beware of with these cars are the 'sort of false' claims. The engine management system will always adjust the torque output to a predetermined level unless you have a tune (in which case the level will be altered but still there). When you make a change in the engine, it takes awhile for the 'learn down' process to readjust back to the predetermined output level.

What several vendors have done is slap a mod on a car, dyno it and truthfully state that there is an increase in power of X bhp as shown on a dyno right after the modification. What they don't mention is that if you buy their product and do the mod, the week after you install it, your power gain will be back to a big fat zero.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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the na and turbo boxes may look the same, but the turbo may be 1/2" taller or so in the intake portion.or1/4 deeper under the filter.or one of the "muffling boxes that have runners to the main intake of the box may be connected to the filter area. or, yup there are many variables that can up he flow.. or it could just just some of the water traps/drain's shorter for inter cooler clearance.... but it's the flow that counts for using on a 2.4 na. Ive just finished "porting" mine for better flow.it's got a good amount of sharp edges witch hurt flow. I will never know if it helps mine or not as it has a stock tune.and the stock muffler( witch I would love to see the innards of). but if a gxp box does infact flow more that would be the route to go and remove the sharp edges/flashing molding areas that are not aligned and hurt flow. Ive got a few hundred hours on superflo flow bench...and that being quite conservative, I'm pretty good at flow...now to find a good tune I can afford...that works...and gives 200 mpg, just kidding but I would love better mpg and more power. so who ever has a pair of boxes 1 na & one turbo if there not on cars please check them so we all know whats what!! thanks to all!!
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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I cant hear any differance in the air box mods...so ...apparently I didnt do enough. Ill do some more at a lator date, and add some insulation to the rear bottom&side neer the upper radiator hose.to keep it cooler.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 11:29 AM
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It appears that I was more interested in this that I thought, or maybe just wanted an "excuse" to avoid yard work.

As far as I can tell from the catalog specs, my shop vac flows about 325 CFM, although this could be wildly inaccurate.
Using an NA top on both the NA and RL bottoms, I measured a 2" WC pressure drop across both of them.
Using an airbox bottom with the resonator and inlet trumpet cut off I measured 3.5" WC with the NA top and 4" WC with the RL top.
All measurements were done with the same filter that showed some dirt, but a comparison test with a new out of the box filter gave the same pressure drop.

My conclusions:
>The bottoms flow the same, and the inlet trumpet makes a big improvement in flow over a square hole.
>The NA top flows slightly better than the RL top, probably because of the shape of the exit. See the picture for a comparison, the RL is on the left.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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yes cutting the trumpit will screw up and lower flow a lot.a whole lot .I did not remove that. if you have one that has been done it needs a new one made for it with a bell mouth.you could even make it down leg to get fresh air from the incoming air stream(via a nicely trimed hole sealed good to the tube that feeds the radiator fresh air. or a nicely made nacca duct to scoop up fresh air. all air entrys need a bell mouth to flow thier max. and yes if your good a shop vac can make a nice flow bench. but remember day to day it will read different due to atmospheric conditions. and of corse the voltage. thus a flow bench has to be calibrated daily if the weather dosent change, if it's changing it needs it frequently.and a correction factor is computed. also CFM means absolutely nothing with out the pressure drop it was taken at. many company's fudge their CFM ratings by flowing things at a different rate. thus a item that flows 275 cfm may flow 25 cfm lower than another thing that flows 260 cfm......it's not lieing but it is "misleading" if you dont know that it was flowed at a different rate.thus the fudge factor may slow you down.

Im pretty sure if the turbo box top was belmouthed it would increase the flow a lot. and could be done with a heat gun and..some creative thinking ahead of time to get the shape right and not all wonkey.( make a wood puck that fits the tube perfectly with a nicce raidi( do it on a wood lathe) then cut off the portion that flat agnist the top. heat the right portion and slowely reform that inlet to a belmouth. free hp. the na box top is good in that dept. I was wondering if the trumpit cross sectoin area was deeper and or wider on the turbo box. I may add another trumpit to my box in the muffler portion that is connected to the main air box now ( I revized a wall with a nice rectangle hole about1.75x1.25 in size to breathe through it too.only one "muffling" box can be connected this way.the others do not intersect the common wall of the main filter box.)

Last edited by marksbug; 04-21-2019 at 02:48 PM.
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