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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 08:36 AM
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Hey if this made any sense at all it would have been discovered a long time ago, it's some fluke (I hope) I'm going home tonight and fill up my Solstice with salt water and turn up the stereo really loud and see what happens.

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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AustinTashis View Post
Even if you could reduce sodium ions in solution by radiating it, the reduction takes energy. You're simply not going to get back as much energy as you have to put into it.

Chemist? Help me out here!
Oh, I agree that all they may have discovered is a way to release sodium from seawater. Look at any refinery and you will see an eternal flame burning off wasteful products that either are not worth recovering becasue they are inefficient or because they are more toxic if collected and not burned off.

It is, I believe, more than just a parlor trick. And if it can desalinate cheaper with less energy input or quicker than reverse osmosis or evaporation, well there are many sea-locked countries around the world in desperate need of fresh potable water. Maybe whatever is burning here just needs to be burned off, and here they may have stumbled on a way of doing so. AG Bell didn't invent the telephone for the purpose of daily communication among non-hearing impaired, that was just the money-side result.

Goat, these are directed radio waves, not wide-spectrum audio. (But I know you realized that, otherwise we could start marketing Monsson speakers as a performance upgrade.) :kol:

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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:38 PM
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Oh, I agree that all they may have discovered is a way to release sodium from seawater. Look at any refinery and you will see an eternal flame burning off wasteful products that either are not worth recovering becasue they are inefficient or because they are more toxic if collected and not burned off.

It is, I believe, more than just a parlor trick. And if it can desalinate cheaper with less energy input or quicker than reverse osmosis or evaporation, well there are many sea-locked countries around the world in desperate need of fresh potable water. Maybe whatever is burning here just needs to be burned off, and here they may have stumbled on a way of doing so. AG Bell didn't invent the telephone for the purpose of daily communication among non-hearing impaired, that was just the money-side result.

Goat, these are directed radio waves, not wide-spectrum audio. (But I know you realized that, otherwise we could start marketing Monsson speakers as a performance upgrade.) :kol:
What are you saying, I shouldn't fill my tank with salt water? How about if I get all my neighbors to tune to the same station and turn it up REALLY REALLY LOUD!

I grew up overlooking SF bay and remember the Morton desalination plant flame, it looked so cool at night from my Mom's deck. A giant mountain of salt, from what I was led to believe used for roads not tables.

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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 01:01 PM
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My head hurts...man did I hate chemistry and physics and math back in high school and college.

The concept sounds interesting, though.

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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Update

Lab resulst that were unavailable when the story was first written point to a greater coincentration of sodium in the water AFTER the burn - implying that something other than, or in greater quantity than just sodium is being released. Remember that the radio waves we are talking about are directed radio waves. Audio radio is undirected, so also is high frequency microwave oven type, that's why their is shielding in the door, the waves are everywhere. These waves are more pinpoint and precise in nature and the main direction is in targeting cancer cells. Remember the telephoine microwave antennas on all teh towers before teh age of fiberoptic and cellphones? That was directional on a large scale.

If GM's current 300 mile fuel cell vehicle (driven that far on public roads just the other day) could be refueled at home with a machine the size of a water softener, and maybe using the dsame salt, plus tapwater - well, my mind is spinning thinking of the ramifications - and the possibilities of using wastewater rather than fresh and possible beneficial side effects. This could be the holy grail of energy independence, only time will tell. One thing I know for sure is it is not perpetual motion.

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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 01:37 PM
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Just as a point of reference I started my career as an RF tech in the Air Force, I was being a smart ass. We had a 3k Klystron that would sterilize a bull at 100 yards and he would never notice except for a slight burning. Used to "shoot" radio controlled planes down by smoking the receivers, ah those were the days. Beer and RF what a combo.

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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-21-2007, 03:31 PM
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OK - like any good scientist, they need to publish HOW they did it, and allow everyone to attempt to repeat the experiment.

It's called "peer review", and prevents snake-oil claims of room-temperature fusion (remember that one?), perpetual motion and the like.


Salt water, RF generator... simple enough. Where's the report, so I can attempt to duplicate it. Any good scientist knows this is part of the whole world of science.
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-21-2007, 06:12 PM
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Salt water, RF generator... simple enough. Where's the report, so I can attempt to duplicate it. Any good scientist knows this is part of the whole world of science.
Too late. The oil companies just bought the rights to the process, this guy Kanzius, his friends and family, the mineral rights on salt water and has persuaded congress to pass a ban on any form of RF generation anywhere near salt water.

(In best John Stewart voice, shaking fist) DAMB YOU EVIL OIL COMPANIES!!!

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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-21-2007, 08:59 PM
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Too late. The oil companies just bought the rights to the process, this guy Kanzius, his friends and family, the mineral rights on salt water and has persuaded congress to pass a ban on any form of RF generation anywhere near salt water.

(In best John Stewart voice, shaking fist) DAMB YOU EVIL OIL COMPANIES!!!
No report... then <insert Lewis Black shaking head blblbluhblbluh noise> it doesn't exist.

I have an dragon in my garage. You can't see it because it is invisible, and is very good at hiding his footprints...

Same thing. I also have a 'theory' that little men with VERY BRIGHT BUT SMALL LED's are what lights up the moon. You can't see them because they hide if you use a telescope... but they're there...
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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-21-2007, 09:19 PM
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No report... then <insert Lewis Black shaking head blblbluhblbluh noise> it doesn't exist.

I have an dragon in my garage. You can't see it because it is invisible, and is very good at hiding his footprints...

Same thing. I also have a 'theory' that little men with VERY BRIGHT BUT SMALL LED's are what lights up the moon. You can't see them because they hide if you use a telescope... but they're there...
I KNEW IT!!!!

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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 07:15 AM
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I think you're all missing the point: This guy discovered the cure for cancer and an alternate fuel source in his garage...Ahh, the American Dream!

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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 08:03 AM
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I put 5 pounds of bromine and 5 pounds of chlorine in my pool and it blew up, now there and alternative energy sorce. Let me ask all you skeptics, would you have ever believed you could heat something with invisible waves. I never would of, hang on a second I need to get something out of the microwave.

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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-11-2007, 08:23 PM
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Oxidation vs Reduction

I feel the need to make a very important correction on the points made about the chemical term 'oxidation'. It occurs in the reverse from what was described: Oxidation refers to the LOSS of an electron from an atom, not the gain - which is noted by the plus sign on Na+ - i.e. the Na+ ion is an oxidized Na(s) atom, or a sodium metal atom which has LOST one electron. In the NaCl salt, the Chlorine is the NEGATIVE ion, with -1 charge, because the chlorine is more electronegative, and holds the electron more tightly than the sodium. Thus to convert Na+ back into its atomic (non-charged) form, you need to ADD an electron, not subtract one.
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:45 PM
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I know very little about science, but I found this clip, hope it helps your intellectual retrospective, or whatever....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SslCpQ26IY

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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTashis View Post
But why didn't he just say it was enough to light two 100 watt bulbs?
Why not 8 25-watts, or 4 50-watts? or 20 10-watts? He is an inventor...they invent, nobody said they were smart in all areas. (I almost said Scientist, but I checked and don't see that in the article. )

Maybe our resident Chemist can give us some more clues.

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