Recall notice - what to expect - Page 2 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 09:39 AM
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......About 25 years ago U.S. car companies started demanding that their suppliers pay for tooling. The supplier of a sensor, for example, adds some to their piece price to recover the cost of the tooling, usually over the period of a couple of years. If they sell enough sensors, they get their money back. But what if that car company goes bankrupt and leaves the supplier with a bunch of unpaid bills for sensors they've delivered and haven't been paid for? If the supplier isn't one of the "big fish" they won't ever get paid. Since they owned the tooling they can scrap it for whatever they can get for it or opt to hold onto it.

If the supplier is asked to make more sensors in the future, the supplier is in control as they own the tooling and want to get paid back for everything they were owed at the time of the bankruptcy. Or they could tell the car company to pound salt where the sun doesn't shine and the car company has to have someone else build tooling (which can take an extended period of time) and validate their new sensors........
This is not universally true. For us, in fact, it is just the opposite. We used to pay for and own our tooling, but now we are paid by the OEM for the tooling and it is owned by them. They (GM especially) decided that they wanted control of parts production and wanted to have the ability to pull tooling from one supplier to give to another. As a side effect, we are not allowed to use the tooling to make aftermarket parts. We also almost always have a contractual obligation to maintain the ability to make service parts for the OEM for 10 years after the end of production.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 02:08 PM
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This is not universally true. For us, in fact, it is just the opposite. We used to pay for and own our tooling, but now we are paid by the OEM for the tooling and it is owned by them. They (GM especially) decided that they wanted control of parts production and wanted to have the ability to pull tooling from one supplier to give to another. As a side effect, we are not allowed to use the tooling to make aftermarket parts. We also almost always have a contractual obligation to maintain the ability to make service parts for the OEM for 10 years after the end of production.
That was the "norm" up until 25 years ago, at least in the plastic molding sector. Even when I was dealing with "tier one" suppliers (they sell direct to the OEM's), they were being required to pay for the tooling and they would in turn pressure us to pay for it. I cautioned them at the time that if something breaks down in the chain, there are big legal questions as to who owns what. Say GM owns the design of the component but my company owns the tooling. I can't sell anything off of the tooling as it's not my design, but GM can't take possession of the tooling unless they pay me for it.

That pendulum started swinging the other way by the early 2k's because so many sub-suppliers were going out of business because they couldn't absorb the cost hit of doing business that way. So they began to pay for tooling again in order to maintain control. After all, they were paying for it anyway, it was just an accounting stunt to make their books look good.

An interesting twist was when everyone started going to China for tooling at a 70% discount, we had a local tier one tell us we had to prove to BMW, their customer, that we WEREN'T going to China and that all tooling was produced locally. Seems like they were burned one too many times by that process.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 02:10 PM
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John - are they still hitting you up for x% per year price reduction for "the life of the program" but not defining what the "life" would be? I always loved that one. 3% per year on something that might last 20 years so after about 5 years I'm basically paying you to take parts from me!

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 02:32 PM
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I have never seen a prohibition against copying a part, as long as the OEM logos are not used. Technically speaking, the windscreen design is not patented, copyrighted, or trademarked, so copying it is not a problem. That is why Safelight, Pilkington, Fuyao, and others are able to sell replacement windscreens. They will buy an OEM part and design tooling to make the same thing. When the contracts were limited to the parts themselves we were able to use the tooling that we designed and built to the drawings instead of a sample, so it cut out a big step in producing AGR parts. Now the contracts are to design and build a tool, then to use it to make the parts. Since they are paying directly for the design and construction of the tool they own it, and that is why we can't use it for anything but their parts.

We used to see a lot of that, mainly from the FNPs who called it a "cost-down". Now, with much more aggressive quoting, it has mainly gone away. We do still see it on some occasions, when a part is exceptionally complex and we know there will be a steep learning curve, but then the cost-down is limited to the first year or two.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 05:13 AM
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I had no problem getting my recall done in June 2018..but it took 5 months to get my $501.98 reimbursed. It took 5 calls to to GM Assistance and 2 trips to the dealer but finally ....success!!!
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 10:23 AM
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If they only add the reinforcement and the mat later fails, will GM replace the mat as part of the recall? That is the real problem. If the mat is perfect then (hopefully) the mat never fails, but if it's marginally, the reinforcement just buys some time. The objective is to have a working mat/sensor.

Not that I would say this out loud but I think it's best to go in with a broken mat/sensor.

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Last edited by AWATS; 11-30-2018 at 10:09 AM.
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 10:54 AM
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If they only add the reinforcement and the mat later fails, will GM replace the mat as part of the recall?
Short answer, yes, but only if it has been less than a year since the first fix (reinforcement only). The entire recall procedure has a 1 year warranty.

YMMV.



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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 01:55 PM
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This is from GM
Dealers are to inspect the PPS sensor mat for proper function. If the mat is functioning correctly, dealers will add a reinforcement strip to the existing sensor mat. If the mat is not functioning correctly, dealers will install a new PPS mat with the reinforcement strip. Please note that GMs standard 1 year/unlimited service part warranty applies to both the sensor mat and the reinforcement strip, regardless of which repair procedure is used. If only the reinforcement strip is installed, and the sensor mat fails during the 1 year/unlimited warranty period, the sensor mat and the reinforcement strip should be replaced free of charge.
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-30-2018, 10:11 AM
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Ok, so break it before you go in. Got it!

JK

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 09:42 AM
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Took mine in yesterday to have the Service guy look at it. Mine finally broke a few weeks ago - no, I didn't do it deliberately, but I am glad I can get the whole thing replaced now. Interestingly I never got the actual recall postcard until about 10 days ago, pretty soon after it started giving me all the error/warning alarms! I guess someone was watching.

Anyway, the techs were out to lunch so he said he put in the ticket and ordered all 3 (?) parts anyway. I did tell him it was definitely busted, but he didn't check, he just said he'd order it all in case it was (sigh!)

He said the parts would come in in one to two weeks. Yeah - not holding my breath, but I didn't tell him that!

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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 10:09 AM
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Eventually, unless GM really is as evil and uncaring as some seem to think, parts are going to be available. Maybe it is getting to be that time. Fingers crossed?

John
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TomatoSoup View Post
Took mine in yesterday to have the Service guy look at it. Mine finally broke a few weeks ago - no, I didn't do it deliberately, but I am glad I can get the whole thing replaced now. Interestingly I never got the actual recall postcard until about 10 days ago, pretty soon after it started giving me all the error/warning alarms! I guess someone was watching.

Anyway, the techs were out to lunch so he said he put in the ticket and ordered all 3 (?) parts anyway. I did tell him it was definitely busted, but he didn't check, he just said he'd order it all in case it was (sigh!)

He said the parts would come in in one to two weeks. Yeah - not holding my breath, but I didn't tell him that!
It's nice to know that other people also have GM dealers that care about their customers and have decent customer experiences to report. My dealer service manager just went ahead and ordered all 3 parts for me at the start of the recall, without even talking to me, and then called me to schedule my recall when he got the parts in.



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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOC View Post
It's nice to know that other people also have GM dealers that care about their customers and have decent customer experiences to report. My dealer service manager just went ahead and ordered all 3 parts for me at the start of the recall, without even talking to me, and then called me to schedule my recall when he got the parts in.



.
Now that's REAL customer service!
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 10:45 AM
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If you have yet to get the recall applied, make sure you reverse any seat mods before taking it in!

See: https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...at-mods-157243

Owner of "Campbelle", a Brazen 2008 GXP ... with mods piling up...
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