"Cheater" Lamborghini - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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"Cheater" Lamborghini

Lamborghini has issued its first hybrid car.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/cars/...rid/index.html

My only problem with it is that the regular engine produces 774 bhp while the electric component adds only 34 bhp....

I can't help wondering why they did this. Could have been to get them over the 800 bhp line, or could have been just so they could advertise it as a hybrid.

Maybe GM should start supplying those little flip down generators that rub against a bike tire and produce 3 W at 6v (yes, I had to look that up) so they can advertise their models as being 'hybrids'...? A lot cheaper than having those expensive battery packs manufactured in third world countries so you can say that no additional pollution was done in the US......


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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 02:15 PM
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Maybe GM should start supplying those little flip down generators that rub against a bike tire and produce 3 W at 6v (yes, I had to look that up) so they can advertise their models as being 'hybrids'...? A lot cheaper than having those expensive battery packs manufactured in third world countries so you can say that no additional pollution was done in the US......
I remember there were a number of GM cars a few (maybe 15) years ago that were classified as 'mild hybrids'. They just had a motor/generator on the serpentine belt.

Pretty much the same thing

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 03:10 PM
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........I can't help wondering why they did this. ........
According to the article the electric motor makes the car 10% faster and smooths the shifting. Both worthy goals, and apparently they got what they were looking for.

Everything in system design is a trade-off. High-power electric motors are heavy, and the batteries (or in this case capacitors) to power more powerful motors are heavier than those for smaller motors. You always balance more power against more weight and more volume. They seem to have added "enough" of one without adding too much of the others.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 02:24 PM
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Well... if you could have the electric motor kick in while shifting, you could potentially get constant acceleration. That'd be neat. Of course, it's not like a modern DCT really needs that, anyway. I drove a 911 Turbo S recently that was a) neck-snappingly fast and b) the shifts were instantaneous. I'm still trying to figure out how the motor can gain or drop 1000 RPM in about 10ms without ripping itself or the transmission to pieces.

Or do what GM did with the C8 and have it intentionally slip the clutches during shifts. I'm looking forward to trying that one out.

Super-caps aren't that heavy, especially relative to a big-ass 2000lb (Tesla) battery pack. I'd be surprised if Lamborghini didn't have a very good performance-oriented justification for the design. I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy or marketing. Like Ferrari, they don't advertise as they sell everything they can produce, without really trying.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 02:33 PM
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Well... if you could have the electric motor kick in while shifting, you could potentially get constant acceleration. That'd be neat.

Or do what GM did with the C8 and have it intentionally slip the clutches during shifts. I'm looking forward to trying that one out.

Super-caps aren't that heavy, especially relative to a big-ass 2000lb (Tesla) battery pack. I'd be surprised if Lamborghini didn't have a very good performance-oriented justification for the design. I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy or marketing. Like Ferrari, they don't advertise as they sell everything they can produce, without really trying.
Constant acceleration is probably part of the "10% faster" that was mentioned.

The article did say that all 63 cars were pre-ordered, with a price "in the millions".
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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I'd be surprised if Lamborghini didn't have a very good performance-oriented justification for the design. I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy or marketing. Like Ferrari, they don't advertise as they sell everything they can produce, without really trying.
Lamborghini is notorious for catering to public taste. Remember the Countach? The original design with no fins, spoilers or air dams was the sleekest and had best top speed, as well as being a completely new styling idiom. All of the aero add-ons they stuck on the cars later on slowed them down, but sold more cars.

If you find a performance reason for crap like this, let us know.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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If you find a performance reason for crap like this, let us know.
Does sales performance count?

Also, the 80s were a long time ago. Almost 40 years. There are quite a few more competitors in that space now. While your Countache analysis is spot-on, I don't think anyone would make the same observations about a Murci, Aventador or any of the recent models.

(Is it just me, but does Diamante (Mitsubishi) sound like a Lambo model name?)

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Also, the 80s were a long time ago. Almost 40 years. name?)
Hey - I just did a trip in my 63 year old car today....but you are right, and I did like some of the models you mention.

I posted this thread because I didn't know how exactly the small electric add on functioned and whether it was a worthwhile addition, or an advertising come on.

I'd be delighted to find that they hadn't repeated their huckstering past and that there was a vital function for the electric motor that a mechanical solution wouldn't have performed as well.
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Current fleet:
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1958 MGA Twin Cam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1971 Jensen Interceptor
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2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently departed: 1965 Jensen CV8, 1969 Lamborghini Islero S, 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT, 1969 MGC roadster
Mods at https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...thread-102178/

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 04:46 PM
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....... I'd be delighted to find that they hadn't repeated their huckstering past and that there was a vital function for the electric motor that a mechanical solution wouldn't have performed as well.
I am absolutely certain that there is a mechanical solution (or a collection of them) that would add 10% to the speed and smooth the shifting. But it wouldn't be as easy or as cost effective.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 07:55 PM
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To whatever extent anything I've learned is worth sharing, I'd boil down the most valuable bits to just a few points:

1. There is always a better solution.
2. Perfect is the enemy of good.
3. If it doesn't ship, it doesn't matter.

...
99. If you're a low-volume Italian sportscar company that's having cashflow issues, ground effects and stupid front spoilers are an effective way to reinvigorate sales with the Miami Vice crowd. (Yeah, Testarossa, blah blah blah.)
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Last edited by raygun; 09-05-2019 at 07:59 PM.
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