V8 Kappa's For Sale - Page 15 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #211 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 01:03 PM
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Guess I don't get it.

Except to the 'give me a V8 or give me death' crowd, is a 400 bhp V8 powered Kappa better than a 450 bhp LNF powered one?
Better by what standard? Rarity? Performance? Collectibility? Future value? Wow factor?

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post #212 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 03:59 PM
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That car has its own forum thread . . . . https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...-005-a-153274/


so he bought it a year ago, moved it to California and it's now for sale near Dallas a year later ? I'm not a buyer as I do want red and really looking at next year or later for actually buying one; but would be nice if he stopped by and gave some insight for any potential buyer.

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post #213 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RedOne07 View Post
Only the sound is already enough I think !

Never driven a 400bhp Solstice but seems to me it is too much power and does not create a better drivability.
I find mine perfectly driveable, I have driven it to two Nassam's 2017 & 2019, & WV in 2018. The only thing it doesn't do well is pass a gas Station. I can live with that.

Now if you are talking about a LS7 car I may agree with you.

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post #214 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 09:56 PM
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so he bought it a year ago, moved it to California and it's now for sale near Dallas a year later ? I'm not a buyer as I do want red and really looking at next year or later for actually buying one; but would be nice if he stopped by and gave some insight for any potential buyer.
I think the California Smog Gods rejected the Mallett…

2008 GXP Aggressive Red - SOL LVR - Trifecta custom switchable tune - DDM CAI/charge tubes/silicone hoses - Werks IC - Solo Hi-flow Cat/Mach Shorty exhaust - DDM Probeam/Backbone/Venom brace - Sprint Booster - Short throw shifter - Full LED conversion w/pulsating third brake light and sequential turn signals - SaddlX & GearTripR center console - Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
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post #215 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 05:07 AM
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You are correct, the owner bought the car imported it from anouther state and then could not get it passed the Smog board. Then sold it for a loss.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
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post #216 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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You are correct, the owner bought the car imported it from anouther state and then could not get it passed the Smog board. Then sold it for a loss.
that's too bad. I think if I were him, I may have just kept it anyways and been an outlaw. I mean, even with serious hotrod like that, the percent that he's going to be pulled over is low unless he's racing at stoplights.

but then, i'm not a good judge as i'm an outlaw, my gxp registration is outdue for months but I drive about once a week and do not race and I know from experience that if you just tell the register you haven't driven it; they'll give you the new registration. I figure its really not worth their time over a $60 permit.

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post #217 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 07:38 AM
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Are you insured when driving without a valid registration ?
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post #218 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 09:36 AM
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Are you insured when driving without a valid registration ?
It is possible to insure a vehicle that is not registered, so the simple fact of it not being registered does not automatically mean no insurance.

Some policies, like mine, will cover liability in any vehicle, whether or not it is listed on a policy, under some circumstances. Outside of those circumstances, the fines for driving an un-insured vehicle can be substantial in some jurisdictions, you likely have no collision or comprehensive coverage, and your insurance company may drop you if they find out about it. So the risk is certainly not insignificant.
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post #219 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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Are you insured when driving without a valid registration ?
always insured, just do not feel the need to pay the govt registration.

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post #220 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:01 AM
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Only the sound is already enough I think !

Never driven a 400bhp Solstice but seems to me it is too much power and does not create a better drivability.
I say this with the greatest respect and kindness.

"I have no experience at this but clearly its bad"

While I appreciate that you have an opinion, your statement begins with a disqualifying statement.

I have 25k miles on a V8 Solstice and in my EXPERIENCE it does add to the drivability. And the fun factor. And the OMG experience.

You can choose to drive the V8 Solstice in a mild manner and it has great drivability. Shift early, let it lug along at the bottom of the power curve. It will return great muffled sound, smooth power delivery, and a great ride.

Give it a bit more throttle and it will perform at a higher level but it is very controllable. Having more power, be it with a highly built 2.0 or with a stock LS motor of moderate power and both will behave in a similar manner. If anything, the power delivery in the highly tuned 400 hp 2.0 is LESS controllable as the turbo power curve tends to be very steep and I have seen many tuned 2.0s disappearing over the horizon at 6000 RPM as the driver is hanging on to a charging hot rod.

For me, the decision factors were 1) longevity of the LS motor over a similarly tuned 2.0. During the period when I was faced with the decision to V8 or not, we had a LOT of built 2.0s self destructing and manual transmissions giving up the ghost. Clutch failures. Axel failures. The landscape looked like it was littered with smoking turbo motors that broke, burned up, or just gave up. 2) I tuned my 2.0 to 305 at the wheels. That is somewhere around 350 HP at the crank. In my opinion that is a power level that retains reliability while providing great performance. I enjoyed the power but I was constantly worried about every ping, every time I hit the rev limiter I looked for smoke. Every start included listening for any rattling or signs of damage. I was very concerned, probably without merit, about the fragility of the motor and transmission.

All of that went away with the conversion. Sure I had other challenges but they did not involve the basic reliability, drivability and fun factor of the V8. And many of the challenges were self inflicted as part of my learning the car.

Having a V8 is not for everybody. But it can be a great experience and a ton of fun. Its an even BIGGER driving experience. And I would have no compunction about having any competent driver drive the car. Its very forgiving and easy to drive at less than ten tenths performance.

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https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/punisher-65168/
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https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post2067289

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post #221 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by leeholsen View Post
that's too bad. I think if I were him, I may have just kept it anyways and been an outlaw. I mean, even with serious hotrod like that, the percent that he's going to be pulled over is low unless he's racing at stoplights.

but then, i'm not a good judge as i'm an outlaw, my gxp registration is outdue for months but I drive about once a week and do not race and I know from experience that if you just tell the register you haven't driven it; they'll give you the new registration. I figure its really not worth their time over a $60 permit.
In Colorado, if you have ever registered your car and let it laps, when you do go back, they charge you for the full period of time. So if you let it "rest" for 5 years thinking you are saving money, they hit you with all 5 years registration in addition to current year. It can get very expensive.

Rob the Elder

Punisher's Daddy
Green Dragon's chief mechanic
Carol's husband for 50 years

Secretary Rocky Mountain Solstice and Sky Club
Punisher's story
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/punisher-65168/
Punisher thread index
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post1765649
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post2067289

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post #222 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wspohn View Post
Guess I don't get it.

Except to the 'give me a V8 or give me death' crowd, is a 400 bhp V8 powered Kappa better than a 450 bhp LNF powered one?
Can you define who are the V8 or death crowd? I don't think that is a crowd at all. :-)

It suggests that you have a distinct bias and brings into question your motivation for this topic. I really enjoy your approach to explaining problems and solutions. You bring a vast experience and speak engineering language. Which I obviously enjoy. But occasionally, as we all do, you can kind of go over the edge. Or at least can see it from where you traveled.

In my experience yes.

The V8 power delivery is much different. It builds in a totally different way than the turbo which tends to build power more slowly at low RPMs, which I don't view as an issue, but then its power delivery is very steep and goes off like a rocket. To get over 400HP a major turbo upgrade is implied which brings low RPM lag. Great fun but not great for drivability. I agree that you can "drive around" the power delivery in either motor, but with the V8 its a much better experience for me.

Also, as stated several times, I can flog the living crap out of the V8 for years and not work about it puking its guts along the road. We have plenty of evidence that a 2.0 - even a nearly stock 2.0 can and will fail catastrophically with little or no warning. We have seen blocks crack, high pressure fuel pump driven failures, water pump failures, rod failures, piston failures, valve failures, and higher rate of transmission failures . . . the 2.0 is a great motor but like any machine that is normally operated at or beyond its design limits there are multiple failure modes and lots of failures. it was delivered at 260 ft pounds for a reason. It is clearly capable of much higher power levels. I read about a 2.0 factory dragster that made over 1000 HP. But as the power levels increase, reliability pays the price. Also, even at 400 hp, the power curve gets tall but narrows. Its physics. There is no free lunch.

The V8 has much fewer failure modes, has much fewer failures, has great acoustic and visceral experience and in my opinion for many is a much better return on investment if you are keeping your car long term. The V8 has the potential for what? 2000 hp? But when tuned for 400 HP its not working hard at all. Its like a big happy dog, pulling the sled all day long day after day.

Rob the Elder

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Secretary Rocky Mountain Solstice and Sky Club
Punisher's story
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/punisher-65168/
Punisher thread index
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https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post2067289

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post #223 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:45 AM
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In Colorado, if you have ever registered your car and let it laps, when you do go back, they charge you for the full period of time. So if you let it "rest" for 5 years thinking you are saving money, they hit you with all 5 years registration in addition to current year. It can get very expensive.
I'd have no problem with that.

since this thread has had some questions, I guess i'll give the whole story; will make me sound like less of an outlaw though.

I initially missed the window with my jeep years ago to mail it in on time, so I figured i'd just go to the local office and pay it and any fine; but they waved me away because my inspection was not then within 30 days of me tryng to get the registration at which point I decided the hell with them, i'm over 40 and mostly drive to work and back; am not closing bars anymore; so it was probably very unlikely i'm getting pulled over over most on the road today and definitely not for a cop seeing an expired tag.
I figured I could get it when it was convenient for me and when I finally got around to it, no penalty; just pay the current year and they could car less and I was right; so I just do that with both my jeep and gxp now if I forget to mail it in or getting them inspected isn't convenient for me that month.

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Ben Franklin
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post #224 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:50 AM
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Rob, you're selling me on the V8. of course I want it just to have that kind of power in a solstice, but i'm likely going to never line up next to a vette at a light or hit 100 in the freeway, i'm just not that kind of driver. if its going to be less trouble than a turbo, another selling point.
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post #225 of 232 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 01:05 PM
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The Solstice is easier to control than my Ram 1500. The Ram with the hemi and the 8 speed is very sensitive at low throttle. It took me a while to get the feel for it so I was not jerking or chirping the tires. I know it sounds odd but that is how it feels. The Solstice has similar characteristics but is much easier to drive from a stop smoothly and consistently

Rob the Elder

Punisher's Daddy
Green Dragon's chief mechanic
Carol's husband for 50 years

Secretary Rocky Mountain Solstice and Sky Club
Punisher's story
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/punisher-65168/
Punisher thread index
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post1765649
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post2067289

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