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post #31 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
All learning isn't the same, and the definition can change with the application.

The ECM starts out with default values, and uses short-term and long-term trims to adjust its operation to produce the desired result based on measurements that it makes. Those trims are retained for use the next time it runs because it has learned its environment and the ways that its system varies from the assumed nominal system. It has therefore learned.

It is no different than your behavior when you perform a particular task, but aren't happy with the result. You may do exactly the same thing the second time you do it, but vary the force or speed that you do it. Your "program" hasn't changed, but you learned that your initial parameters weren't optimum, so you adjusted them.

The fact that unpowering the ECM for a period of time "resets" it to the defaults demonstrates that it has "learned" something, otherwise it couldn't "forget" anything.
I agree. You stated the behavior well. We just differ on what we call "learning" In my world, I do software design for complex space systems, code that "learns" modifies itself to achieve outcomes that were not foreseen by the coders. The code creates the rules that allow opportunities for self writing code to exist, but you cant always predict where the software will need to go under all circumstances.

In an air breathing earth bound human controlled vehicle, as opposed to an orbiting autonomous vehicle, the allowable "learning" is highly constrained. To me its the difference between creating boundary conditions and allowing the code to travel where it needs to go to achieve its objectives, and creating a set of rules with no boundaries and the code can modify itself as it sees fit.
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post #32 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rob the elder View Post
I agree. You stated the behavior well. We just differ on what we call "learning" .......
Seems like a contradiction. Is it only learning if you gain a new skill or ability? Or does learning also include gaining the knowledge to do the same thing better?

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post #33 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
This is very interesting... Did you know that there is a push from GM to not allow anyone to tune their cars? If this gets passed in courts, and you take your car for service at a dealer, and they find out that you have touched the tune, you get a HEFTY fine!!

Don't believe me? Look for John Deere. They have been taking farmers to court over the "tunes" they're putting in their farm equipment, and it's setting a precedence that GM can follow through with as well as other OEs. If it passes, it would treat your vehicle software like it does any other software...that you decompile and modify it. It will also treat your vehicle, the way John Deere has won in court, that you merely "lease" the car, whether purchased or not, for it's usable life and aren't allowed to modify it in any way.... John Deere technically now still owns all farm equipment "sold" to people now.... Do I agree with it?'s software. If we want to have laws governing computer software that was painstakingly developed, why shouldn't it apply to vehicle software?
I have been following the John Deere situation and unless I missed this getting overturned I think you are behind the times.

In October 2018 the Library of Congress adopted an exemption to the DMCA specifically to make it legal to circumvent access controls for "non-infringing" purposes such as repair.

Further, Minnesota seems to be about to pass a Right-to-Repair law of its own.

I don't think that either of these compels manufacturers to provide the tools or information needed to do it, but they do make it legal.
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